Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi Folks,
Took Jethro out today for his first real run and on returning after six miles I noticed that although the oil had stopped leaking from the tappet chest cover there was a noticeable leak from the joint between the rear of the engine and the bellhousing.
There was also a small drip at the very front of the engine and the oil filter housing also had a drip at the bottom of it.
I was wondering if anyone knows the torque setting for the engine to bellhousing bolts as I can't seem to find the information in any of my manuals.It may be that they just need tightening as I have found a number of loose bolts and connections throughout the car since I bought it.
Another strange thing was that, having noticed that the fourth gear crunched slightly when engaging, I removed the gearbox filler plug to check the level and oil literally poured out all over the ground! Would an excess of oil be detrimental to the operation of the gearbox or cause the aforementioned leak at the joint?
Worst case scenario if the box is on its way out would be to have an exchange unit fitted at a garage as I do not have proper workshop facilities at home but I will make a decision on that in a few more weeks.
Oh by the way the replacement speedometer and cable that I fitted weeks ago is working perfectly!

bell housing bolts are just pulled up tight with a ring key......no need for torque settings (but it would be 25 ft lbf) . But they have no effect on possible oil leaks.......looks like sump gasket leaks - and pull the oil filter bolt up slightly to see if that helps...... Too much oil in 'box = no great problem - except perhaps more leaks...... As long as the 'box works in all the gears - just take time changing in to 4th......

Agree with bmc regarding your box, dont make any snap decisions, if its working OK you will soon find a way of avoiding the crunch or ignoring it. In respect of the leaks mine has lots, a good thick carpet on the garrage floor and regular checks/top ups have done the trick for the last 10 years or more.

Can't thank you enough guys,
After paying out a lot of money to get the car I was getting concerned that I might have bought a lemon!
It's very reassuring to receive your information and advice.
Thanks once again - now where did I put that drip tray!

Another strange thing was that, having noticed that the fourth gear crunched slightly when engaging

The 803 box is fairly weak, you just have to take time changing gears, especially into 4th. I too get that crunch if I hurry it... just take...it...easy! On mine changing from 3rd, moving the lever slightly across to the right and then into 4th does the trick.

Another tip: if 1st won't select, move into 2nd then straight up to 1st.

Jethro has a 948cc engine and later remote type gearbox but I will take your advice and be a bit more patient with the gears.
Funnily enough I had an MG Midget back in the early 70s with exactly the same 1st gear procedure - coast in second gear to almost a standstill then engage 1st, anything else resulted in a lot of noise!

It's the same gearbox.....standard procedure for engaging 1st and reverse.

Ahhh! it's all coming back to me now!
Mind you the gearbox on Jethro is quiet as a mouse compared with the hideous grinding monstrosity that lurked underneath my Midget, it had been sorely abused and took a lot of stick stirring to engage the gears without fearful noises emanating from the nether regions!

bmcecosse wrote:It's the same gearbox.....standard procedure for engaging 1st and reverse.

I don't know if I have just been lucky but 1st gear on Jethro engages perfectly from rest and the only small crunch is on the upshift from 3rd to 4th, reverse goes in straight away as well.

It's possible that one of the effects of too much oil was that the extra drag slowed the layshaft down, making quiet gear engagement from a stand easier.

Reading the sound advice about "taking your time" when changing gear reminded me that there's been a significant change in the way changing gear is taught: I was taught to change in separate stages; into neutral; pause; into gear: nowadays a single snatch seems to be the way, and old designs of gearbox won't stand for it. The old way also required you to bend and rotate your wrist, so that your palm broadly faced the direction you were trying to move the lever. As for hoping to get into first on the move - forget it! At least till you'd learned how to double-declutch.

One of the advantages to using gear oil instead of engine oil in the gearbox would be that one sniff would tell you whether it was engine or gear oil that was leaking out of the bottom of the bell housing. I may start a thread on gear oil sometime. Meanwhile, a sheet of clean paper on the garage floor may help you distinguish between gear oil (clean) and engine oil (probably black). But unless it's pouring out, or it's affecting the clutch, I wouldn't worry about it.

Kevin

You must not use EP 'gear' oils in the A series gearbox..... It attacks the brass/bronze bits...

Gear oils is a topic on its own, so perhaps we can leave it here with a note that at least one very respected maker changed his gearbox recommendation from engine oil to gear oil in the mid-fifties, when it became clear that EP properties could be obtained with safe additives, and gearbox life improved as a result. There is an ASTM test for copper corrosion, and some GL5 oils achieve 1a rating - in effect, no corrosion.

As so often, it's not black and white, and YMMV. One real gearbox expert has challenged anyone to show him an example of yellow metal corrosion attributable to any gear oil of the last 50 years.

Kevin

I've heard this rumor of gear oils attacking brass and bronze for many many years. A number of years ago I did a test, put some pieces of brass and bronze in a jar and half covered them w/gear oil, put a lid on it and let it sit on the shelf for a coupla years and nary a sign of any of the pieces being attacked, corroded or eaten away by the gear oil. Just some very slight discouloration on the parts that were in the oil.

Oh I think it takes a while - and hot oil will make a difference too. I have seen very 'gold' coloured oil being drained out of gearboxes many years ago now. My TR7 gearbox was originally specified for EP75 oil - but now they suggest ATF fluid is much better. I'll get round to changing mine some day soon.....

bmcecosse wrote:Oh I think it takes a while - and hot oil will make a difference too. I have seen very 'gold' coloured oil being drained out of gearboxes many years ago now. My TR7 gearbox was originally specified for EP75 oil - but now they suggest ATF fluid is much better. I'll get round to changing mine some day soon.....

There is a liquid additive you can get from Spectroline that when used in conjunction with a uv torch shows up yellow.You may know of it.
You can get different additives for water and oils.
Ive used it on hydraulics to good effect.
http://www.tracerline.com

I have used similar on commercial scale air-con compressors to trace leaks.......... But I doubt anyone would put it in a Minor gearbox.....the leaks are all too obvious...