Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi all,
Can someone please confirm that I don't need to have a rear fog light fitted for my first MOT (as new owner). On my '71 Traveller. A horrible universal unit was fitted which I removed. I am pretty sure anything registered before early 80's does not need one, but now I am having second thoughts.
Thanks

Pretty sure you don't need one...none of my Minors have had them & never been an issue at MOT.
Not original equipment.

As far as I'm aware, the only retrospective fitting of any thing on older cars was windscreen washers (when the windscreen is fixed).

From the Testers Manual:

"This inspection applies to the one rear fog lamp
which is required to be fitted to the centre or offside
of vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1980."

and the "Reasons for Rejection" are prefaced "A mandatory rear fog lamp..."

so you don't need one, and even if you've got one, it need not work (on pre-1 April 80 cars)

Kevin

Thanks guys. I thought I didn't need to have one but then a small doubt crept in.
Cheers

Better without the wretched thing!

I always understood that if something was fitted then it had to work, whether it is a fog light, indicators, washers, seat belts.
If someone retro fits seat belts then surely they must work even if they were not a requirement for that year of car.

those scooter owners who have zillions of lights fitted to their classic bikes face the "if fitted it must work" problem every year and seek understanding. [frame][/frame]

anything fitted has to work ,just take it off.

beero: The Testers Manual prefaces the Seat Belt Inspection section with:

"This inspection applies to all seat belts fitted
including child seats/restraints etc."

Notice the distinction between that, and the fog lamp section I quoted, which refers to mandatory lamps, having already defined "mandatory".

Washers are required on most cars, but the relevant section starts by making it clear that the methods of inspection and reasons for rejection apply
"except those with an opening windscreen, or with some
other means of providing the driver with an adequate view.".

So even if you've fitted washers to your early GPO LCV with an opening windscreen, they are not part of the test

kennatt: (and others) Why not just download the "Inspection Manual for Classes 3, 4, 5, and 7 Vehicles"?

http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/d ... guides.htm

All the answers are there.

Kevin

'Cos it needs an expert like you to interpret it

expert?

ex: something from the past; a relic: spurt: a drip under pressure.

Kevin

You don't need a fog lamp for the MoT as no Minor ever had one as orginal equipment.

The thing I like about these old cars is that I can wire a fog and/or spot lamp into the front and operate this independently from the side, head and tail lamps.... so I can see where I'm going but nobody will be able to follow my tail lamps or track me....

A rear fog lamp is a good idea if you do much driving as the tiny rear lamps won't be visible, and you can buy some tasteful period ones.

If I am ever stuck behind you with your rear fog on I shall demonstrate my 130W halogens + 55W spots on main beam

Thanks for clearing that up Kevin, but, as Mike Perry says, the manual is not easy for a layman to understand.

If I am ever stuck behind you with your rear fog on I shall demonstrate my 130W halogens + 55W spots on main beam

Mike, I do not have a rear fog and if I did I would not be so ignorant and thoughtless as to dazzle other drivers with it. It's like leaving your foot on the brake pedal at traffic lights so the bright stop lamps (especially modern LEDs) dazzle the drivers behind. Use the freaking handbrake when stationary.

When I said I can drive with the FRONT fog or spot lamp on by itself I can lose anyone who is following me off my tail lamps and still see where I am going with just the front spot lamp on and no tail lamps.

It is incredibly ignorant and thoughtless to dazzle other drivers.

And if you try your 130 watters I'll just pull the rear window blind down!

I'm glad we are of similar opinions as regards surplus lights

From a friend who owns our local garage, if something is fitted retrospectively, e.g. windscreen washers, reverse light, rear fog light, they must work for the MOT, even if they are not required for the car model year. A good example is a friend's 1927 Austin 7, which has had period aftermarket semaphore indicators fitted for many years. For last years MOT, both units had problems, so we were advised to remove them, and it sailed through the MOT! It would not have done with the semaphores fitted, but not working. Repairs underway.

P.S. He doesn't do motorbikes or scooters, so don't know what the attitude towards the 60's mass use of non-working spot and fog lights would be!!

In theory the earlier comment re 'mandatory' lights etc is correct - they only NEED to work if they are 'mandatory' for that car/year. But - it's not worth arguing with MOT Inspectors in my experience!!

IslipMinor wrote:From a friend who owns our local garage, if something is fitted retrospectively, e.g. windscreen washers, reverse light, rear fog light, they must work for the MOT, even if they are not required for the car model year. A good example is a friend's 1927 Austin 7, which has had period aftermarket semaphore indicators fitted for many years.

Why believe someone who may not have read the Inspection Manual recently, when you can read the original document?

Rear fogs and washers we've covered already in this thread.

On direction indicators, it says:

"This inspection applies to all direction indicators
and hazard warning devices fitted.
[Vehicles without lights exception]
Nor are they required on vehicles first used
before 1 January 1936. However, if they are fitted,
they must be tested."

So they, indeed, must work if fitted.

Reversing lamps are not mentioned anywhere, but under "Front and Rear Position lamps and Registration Plate Lamps"
it says:

"Additional or optional lamps are not included in
the inspection".

So they need not be fitted, and if they are fitted, needn't work.

I take Roy's point about arguing with NTs, but I get on well with mine, and we'll often discuss any difficult areas. He even checked with VOSA what to do about 1926 headlamps that had a rheostat dimmer but no means of dipping. (Verdict - acceptable, provided they do not have a "beam image which is aimed so that it dazzles other road users" Fat chance of that!

Kevin

Since you have mentioned headlamps - do we HAVE to have dipping headlights ? If they are simply fixed beam, but adjusted not to dazzle etc - do they have to be able to go up the 'main beam' position??