Inflated classic prices

[jagnut66]

Hi,
Like many of us, I'm sure, I like to browse the classic car ads in case something interesting comes up within my price bracket. I also like to keep one eye on the classic price guides in the likes of 'Practical Classics'.
Now I know that prices tend to head upwards for the more popular makes of classic out there but I couldn't believe what I was reading recently when I noticed several ads, over various classic car websites on the internet, for Morris Minors carrying price tags of over £10,000, one (trader) was asking £16,000!!
The highest Morris Minor (Traveller) guide price I can find, for one in top condition, is £8,000 (which seems a fair max). Surely these people must be living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that anyone in their right mind is going to pay these sorts of prices, even if they do have some cash to spare in these financially restricted (to say the least!) times. I can only assume that they have consumed some of Dylan's (Magic Roundabout) sugar cubes and were floating with the birds when they typed those prices in!!
A darker thought occurs though, as I notice that Morris is not the only make which has some of their cars prices being pumped up beyond reason, quite apart from the possibility of prices motivated by personal greed on the part of some, is that the 'investors' may be creeping back onto the scene, hyping prices up as far as they can for their own personal gain and pushing many an average man's / true enthusiasts classic dream car out of their reach.....
..... I'd of thought though that they'd have learned from the last time that they got their fingers burned, that as fast as prices can rise, they can also dramatically fall......
Mike.

NB: On a positive note, I do however also note that these overpriced cars seem to sit unsold.....

[Alex'n'Ane]

A lot of people who love the looks and style of the car, but are not or do not wish to be mechanical in any way, will buy such a car from a trader. Lots of the well known minor garages will sell cars at around this price, as that is what it genuinely costs to get a tatty car upto show, A1 standard. (well plus their profit) They will also offer a warranty and after service which is incredibly attractive to such people. If you ever got a quote to get a lot of poor minors up to that condition you would have to pay a restorer in that sort of region for all the work involved. Any other second/weekend car purchased new would still probably cost more..

[LouiseM]

There was a recent newspaper article about a couple who spent £18,000 on a traveller so people are prepared to pay that sort of money. The article explains why more people are getting attracted to classics rather than 'euroboxes': http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/cla ... eborn.html

As already stated, if you want an 'as new' Minor then it does work out expensive. When you factor in labour charges (£60 + per hour in London) and include things like a decent respray, which can cost in the region of £4,000, the price soon mounts up!

[irmscher]

£60 an hour labour £4,000 for a respray average in the North is £25 an hour and a respray on a traveller £1200-£1500 there isnt that much to respray

[LouiseM]

Yes, prices are a bit grim down south It can easily cost £4,000 for a professional respray for a saloon when you factor in the prep work. You can get a cheap 'blow over' for under £1,000 but I guess anyone wanting an 'as new' Minor is going to want it done properly.

[jagnut66]

Sorry, but I still think these prices are OTT.
If you enjoy your hobby then you are prepared to spend money on it, agreed. But I don't think this should be passed onto others, as it is your personal choice.
Fortunately I enjoy the challenge of doing a car up and don't mind getting my hands dirty. But I wouldn't expect others to reimburse me for what I chose to do. I probably have spent a few thousand on my car, over time, as I'm by no means rich but I have thoroughly enjoyed it and find it very rewarding to fix things myself. She has also had a respray and welding work, however, like I said, this was my choice and I will not be charging people 'labour costs' should I have to sell her at some point in the future.
If you push the prices up into orbit you will eventually not attract any new blood into the fold, as people will have more important things to spend such sums on. Then where will the classic car movement be?
Also those who buy something to only polish, show off occasionally and then sell on for a fat profit are not enthusiasts, they are merely investors and speculators.

[Alex'n'Ane]

Not quite sure I agree. Minors are still budget motoring, cheap for a classic, and very cheap compared to buying a new car.

[chrisd87]

Prices for excellent condition classics (of all makes and models) do seem to be heading upwards. Not sure if this is because there are fewer around these days, or other factors. Certainly a lot of cars were shipped abroad when the pound first fell against the €/$ a couple of years ago, although I'm not sure whether Minors were a popular choice. I read one article suggesting that 'younger' European and LHD classics were the most popular candidates for export to the continent.

Minor Travellers, in particular, do seem to have become very much more valuable in the last 5 years or so. When I bought my first Minor in 2004, a roadworthy but not cosmetically perfect traveller could be had for ~£1250. Now such a car would probably go for double that (if not more), whereas saloons don't seem to have experienced the same sort of inflation. One certainly wouldn't have heard of a traveller going for £18k then.

Unfortunately the 'floor price' of projects has now risen to around £150, due to the value of scrap metal these days . It's nice to see principled and good-hearted individuals still offering projects on here for free, but I can't help but notice it's (I think, at least) a rarer occasion now than when I first joined this site. I wonder how many 'barn finds' are never even offered for sale these days, and are simply weighed in. The days when you had to pay the scrap-man £50 to take a car away undoubtedly saved many potential projects from destruction.

I must confess I'm rather conflicted by the idea of rising prices. On the one hand, if prices for very good cars rise to the point where professional restoration of rotten cars begins to become financially worthwhile, then more cars may be saved in the long run. However, I would hate a car like the Minor to become the preserve of the well-off wanting a nice old car to polish and take to shows every now and then. I, certainly, would not have got into Minors (or probably classics as a whole) if the 'price of admission' was too much higher. Totally agreed that the arrival of investors and speculators should not be welcomed. Quite apart from anything else, the rapid boom in prices last time around led to large numbers of hasty/botched restorations which haven't stood the test of time.

[bmcecosse]

" A fool and his money are easily parted " - so good luck to those who ask these crazy high prices!! I do see many new/young Minor Owners on the forum these days - because it seems to be the ONLY way they can get insurance to drive a car.........and long may that last. So that is bound to inflate prices at the lower end of the market, and this will ripple up the chain........

[irmscher]

Convertibles travellers and vans have gone through the roof maybe because of supply and demand and certain restoration companies hiking the inflated prices up. I have seen around four minors bought off the forum quite cheaply by new low post members and then put on Ebay for thousands more (ie chris Edgars car ).The minor was made as an easy to fix car and i see no need for inflated dealer repairs as there isnt anything you or a fellow member could not fix quite cheaply ommiting paintwork and welding.

[chrisd87]

There does seem to be a surge in young owners compared to a few years ago. Not sure if this is primarily driven by insurance costs but I suspect it has a hand. Unfortunately, 'classic car = cheap insurance' is becoming much more widely known, hence many insurance companies now refusing to cover younger drivers on classic policies.

Ebay is another potential source of price inflation - classic cars in general seem to go for pretty strong money on there, possibly due to the much larger audience than the classified ad sections of classic car publications. The prices achievable on ebay obviously then filter through to asking prices elsewhere.

[LouiseM]

The minor was made as an easy to fix car and i see no need for inflated dealer repairs as there isnt anything you or a fellow member could not fix quite cheaply ommiting paintwork and welding.

I agree, but we're talking about professional restorations here, not repairs.

If you push the prices up into orbit you will eventually not attract any new blood into the fold, as people will have more important things to spend such sums on. Then where will the classic car movement be? Also those who buy something to only polish, show off occasionally and then sell on for a fat profit are not enthusiasts, they are merely investors and speculators.

The classic car market has always been pretty much divided into two 'camps' - those who wish to buy fully restored cars from dealers and those who don't, this isn't something new. Same as there will always be some who buy classic cars purely as investments and others who buy them to enjoy them. It hasn't had an effect so far on attracting 'new blood into the fold'. It's a general lack of interest in classic cars, or as already stated the cost of insurance, which is primarily keeping younger people away, not dealer prices for fully restored vehicles. That's why the MMOC young members register and young driver insurance scheme are so important. And anyone buying an 'as new' Minor from a dealer is never going to get anything like the same money back when they come to sell it so it's not a car that tends to attract 'investors & speculators looking for a fat profit'. As Irmscher has pointed out, it is possible to buy a Minor and make a profit - expanding the potential customer base helps - but in the case of an average Minor you're very unlikely to get more money back than you've spent on it, and that isn't why the majority of people buy them.

[chickenjohn]

A lot of people who love the looks and style of the car, but are not or do not wish to be mechanical in any way, will buy such a car from a trader. Lots of the well known minor garages will sell cars at around this price, as that is what it genuinely costs to get a tatty car upto show, A1 standard. (well plus their profit) They will also offer a warranty and after service which is incredibly attractive to such people. If you ever got a quote to get a lot of poor minors up to that condition you would have to pay a restorer in that sort of region for all the work involved. Any other second/weekend car purchased new would still probably cost more..

Agreed, it would cost that (or more!) to get a tatty/ project Minor into this sort of condition due to the amount of professional labour needed.

Many enthusiasts like to tinker, restore and improve, some would prefer to pay £16 - £20k (the price of a new car) and get effectively a "new" Minor.

[rayofleamington]

Minor ownership covers the widest demographic I can imagine.
The car meets the desires of millionaires in the west through through to developing economy budget transport - and everything in between.

Although it's easy for any owner to imagine a one-size-fits-all philosophy (e.g. running on a shoe string budget and DIY everything) there is no one-size-fits-all type of Minor owner.
Some wouldn't even check their own oil and on the opposite end where some hand-make their own repair panels to save pennies.

Having a full resto at a good trader can/will cost as much money as the customer can spend - some have spent well in excess of £40k. Most would find that excessive, but it's pennies compared to a new Bentley.

This forum has a strong (and verbal ) majority of ardent DIYers, but us DIYers are not a monopoly on the website or in the club either. I don't mind working to a tight budget but those with a bigger budget provide their fair share of support to the traders, which helps all of us.

Live and let live!

[Alex'n'Ane]

I think that young classic cars are also getting noticed more! As coles and andy pointed out, they were about the only 2 known to people. Others were however around, just not as noticed.

[mattyb]

Practical classics mag in their "meet the dealers" bit , all the dealers seem to be saying that the exceptional nut n bolt fresh from the rebuild cars are easier to sell at a premium than a car in just "good" condition. Also auction prices are catching up with retail prices, which means the retail price starts to go up , and so on and so on.

Possible in the current financial climate the "smart money" finds other things to invest in - cars, gold pictures etc.

there are a lot of moggies out there and which can keep prices of average to good cars at a sensible level - that said air cold beetles were built in greater numbers ( but possible for the USA market) and prices for VW stuff seems much higher for average to good cars ?.

I've spent nearly £300 on repair panels (sills inner and outer, flitch panels, floor panels) for my £250 4 door, god knows what it would of cost me to get that lot welded in professionally - not that i'm motivated by profit - but some people are.

[faversham999]

There is a market for profesionaly restored cars . To make a living thats what they have to charge not everybody wants to repair cars or DIY rebuilds .Obviously not you.each to there own

[MarkyB]

Possible in the current financial climate the "smart money" finds other things to invest in - cars, gold pictures etc.

Seems the most likely to me, even government bonds aren't that attractive any more and money in the bank is being eroded by inflation.

[mattyb]

I don't have anything against professionally restored cars or indeed those who restore cars - far from it ! I have lots of friends who make their living out of automotive industry (classic or other wise)
The market trend IS the market trend
people are very welcome to spend their money on what ever they want. There are lots on minors out there at all sorts or prices - enough for everyone who can spend or do what they like - "spends yer money and makes your choice" !.

cheers

Matt

[robberred1993]

When I own 4 Morris Minors, I'm happy for the price to inflate!!! Just so long as if I want to buy another one, the price goes back down!