Morris Minor Owners Club

I have just received a certificate of Authenticity from Rob to say my 1956 948cc is a 1966. I would like to thank Rob for taking the time and trouble to send me this certificate.

Im a little bemused though and cant seem to understand how this can happen. As you can see from the pictures.............

Its a splitscreen.......


It has the small back window.......


And also the early dash and interior.........



Also has trafficaters.............


And small front side lights.............


I would obviously persue this and try and get DVLA in Wimbledon to verify the year, as I would prefer it to be registered as it should be. Very sad and confused as to how this could happen. The only thing I can think of is that it IS a 56 but not registered till 66, but thats too wild a reason for me to be satisfied with it.

Apart from DVLA, is there any other motoring body I can approach????

Possibly the incorrect details were entered into the DVLA records when they went from the paper-based system to the computerised system? If details were being entered in a hurry a 5 could easily look like a 6?

And this was from the 'Technical Expert'.....................?

Well, I thought i'd go down that route first What would you suggest I could do??? As my insurance company need to be updated too

As I said earlier, a Production Trace Certificate from Gaydon will give the chassis number and build date of your car so if you supply a copy of the certificate, registration documents and a photo of the chassis plate then they should sort it. And you can frame the certificate and hang it on the wall

mike.perry wrote:And you can frame the certificate and hang it on the wall

C'mon Mike, im not that sad give it time, I say.

CHILEAN MINOR wrote: The only thing I can think of is that it IS a 56 but not registered till 66, but thats too wild a reason for me to be satisfied with it.

Well it's not that unusual a reason. You car could have been exported at some point then registered in 1966 when it returned to the UK. As you have now posted a photo showing the car's registration number I checked the DVLA database and it shows the following information:

The enquiry is complete.
The vehicle details for UNY 464 are:
Date of Liability 01 12 2012
Date of First Registration 16 07 1966
Year of Manufacture 1956
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 848cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type PETROL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Licence Not Due
Vehicle Colour GREY
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available

So the DVLA records state the car was built in 1956 but first registered in 1966. The new style V5c's never show the date that a vehicle was manufactured, just the date that it was first registered, which in your case was 1966. So there doesn't actually appear to be a problem after all

Wow, Louise that's good to hear, at least I know I'm not going mental I suppose the date of registration is what I'm stuck with and they would not change it to the date of manufacture

But surely this was a letter from the 'Technical Expert' telling the owner that the car is a 1966 vehicle?? Even I can see it's a 1956 car!!! And DVLA confirms that.........

If the car was registered in 1966 would'nt be a D registration.

morris van wrote:If the car was registered in 1966 would'nt be a D registration.

That is a very good point

As Mike has said best way to get confirmation is to get a hertiage certificate from The British Motor Heritage which is like a vehicle birth certificate and all based on production records from the chassis number. I got one for my lowlight when I was trying to get the original reg re-instated and it was a great help in the battle!!

I bought a certificate for a mini a good few years back, but it didn't go as far as stating the door key number!

An update, as I've been in touch with chileanminor quite a bit today to try to help him find out more about his car. He sent me some photos of various documents and to cut a long story short the chassis number on the car does not match the chassis number on the old style log book and the new V5.

The chassis number starts FAB which relates to a light grey 1956 4 door but the log book and V5 are showing chassis number FBA... which relates to a black 2 door. The other numbers all match up so it looks as if they were transposed at some point years ago and nobody has spotted the error before.

bmcecosse wrote:But surely this was a letter from the 'Technical Expert' telling the owner that the car is a 1966 vehicle?? Even I can see it's a 1956 car!!!

Well it's easy to tell it's a 1956 car if you're looking at photos of it rather than paperwork Roy. Anyway I've been in touch with Rob to clarify and the error arose because he was dealing with two requests at the same time, one of which was in respect of a 1966 car.

The good news is that in addition to a replacement certificate Rob is going to write a letter to the DVLA explaining the problem with the chassis number so that chileanminor can get his paperwork sorted

I agree - but surely the 'Technical Expert' doesn't issue authentication certificates without researching the car? And despite the mix up with the numbers - even DVLA records show it as a 1956 car. Surely a starting point for any investigation......? Anyway - the worrying thing now is the incorrect chassis numbers. I'm interested to know how that one will be sorted out!

Whilst you are at it you could try correcting the cylinder capacity from 848 to 803cc. 848cc is a Mini engine.

bmcecosse wrote:I agree - but surely the 'Technical Expert' doesn't issue authentication certificates without researching the car? And despite the mix up with the numbers - even DVLA records show it as a 1956 car. Surely a starting point for any investigation......?

But if you remember chilean minor's initial post about this problem (which you contributed to) this all started because he contacted the DVLA when receiving the new V5 because he thought that they had made a mistake with the date of manufacture: http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42360

There wasn't actually a mistake, as the V5 correctly shows the date of first registration rather than the date of manufacture, but whoever chilean minor spoke to at the DVLA requested a letter of authenticity from the club to confirm the year of manufacture. Obviously a mistake on their part, as the DVLA computer already shows the date of manufacture as 1956 so a certificate was not actually necessary. Rob Thomasson didn't need to 'research' the car or 'start an investigation' into it's history as that wasn't the issue here. All that was being asked for was written confirmation from the Club that the chassis number related to a 1956 car, which it does.

A mistake was made on the certificate but this has turned out to be a good thing as otherwise the error with the chassis number on the log book & V5 would not have been identified. Rob is now going to contact the DVLA to advise them of the problem and get the paperwork corrected. He has a good relationship with them due to being in frequent contact as a result of assisting members with their queries so correcting the mistake shouldn't be a problem.

mike.perry wrote:Whilst you are at it you could try correcting the cylinder capacity from 848 to 803cc. 848cc is a Mini engine.

The car actually has a 948cc engine in it so if chilean minor provides Rob with the engine number I'm sure he will try to get this amended at the same time.

There are 848cc inline engines -I wish I had one !

Anyway - the worrying thing now is the incorrect chassis numbers.

Maybe this would worry you Roy, but it's reallly not such a rare occurence. In most cases it's easily sorted with the neccessary paperwork from the club.
In the majority of cases the typo was ignored for decades as it never really caused an issue. However the computerised MOT check has frequently highlighted the error over the ~8 years since it's been in use.
In some cases, frustrated owners have stamped a new number to correspond with the wrong number on the V5... Certainly that's not a great way to fix it!

The more frustrating thing is that it becomes harder to see the date of manufacture on a car's paperwork. "Date of first registration" causes a lot of confusion on cars that were imported to the uk

If the chassis number difference is simply a couple of transposed numbers or letters, then yes I agree - easily sorted out. But if a completely different number then it suggests a ringer......... If the body has a stamped in number - that should identify it for sure. I have never been able to find such a stamping on my Traveller.