Morris Minor Owners Club

Someone must have had the same problems!!!

I have a late 948cc engined saloon (1962) I was fitted with the last batch of 948 engines before the 1098 came in.
I am restoring to original spec but unfortunately do not have the original dizzy. The type fitted to the late 948 and 1098 is 25D4. However, there are a mass of Lucas 25D4 dizzys fitted to many british cars of the day. Can anyone please tell me the Lucas Part number for the 25D4 fitted to late 949cc engines. It would have been a side-entry cap by the way.
I have tried everywhere for this info. I hope someone else may have had the same probs and come up with an answer
Cheers

The style of dizzy cap isn't much to be concerned of - the side entry cap is interchangeable with the straight entry.

According to BMC Workshop Manual the serial numbers for Lucas 25D4 distributors are - High compression 40849B, High compression again 41124 & 41148, Low compression 40899B & 41025.

Hi 57traveller
Thanks very much for the info. Have you any dates relating to the Lucas part numbers. There are so many and I am anxious to try and get as near as possible
cheers

Sorry Leyland, don't know the answer to that. I just stole those figures from the manual and unfortunately, as far as I can see, there are no dates or car numbers listed for the distributor variants.
If you are a MMOC member that could be a good source for information or a lead in the right direction.

Hi

The introduction point of the 25D distributor on the 948 (Chassis No & month) is in Ray Newells "original Morris Minor". Can't find my copy at the moment , but I think its around Mar '62.

Cheers

LEYLAND,...Ray Newells' "Original Morris Minor" says:A new distributor
DM2 P4 was used on 948cc models almost to the end of production,but
was replaced AT ENGINE NUMBER 604228 in 1962 by a new type,
25D4. This change is listed as occuring in March 1962

The BMC parts manual for the Minor lists the change point as chassis no. 604228, as Willie says, but also has a note to say the the 25D4 was used 'intermittently' between 598852 and 604200!

Would a concours judge have the answer to Leyland's question? Is this something they would look out for when examining a car entered for concours? My understanding, maybe mistaken, is that for concours, a car has to be as near to the condition when it left the assembly line. So the type and ref. no. of the distributor should correspond to that condition.

Your understanding is correct 57 however I doubt that they look closly enough to see serial numbers on the dizzy and vaccuum unit to see if it was exactly the right one as dizzy type would be enough I would have thought, does the DM2 P4 look any different to the 25D4, it was also used in the A40 Spridget ect but with different internals and vaccuum but looks identical outside.

I'm sure I saw an illustration of the DM2 P4 or another type when looking for the ref. no.'s. I'll look again.
You're probably right Kevin, it could get a bit silly if ref. no.'s were brought into the equation. e.g. a gearbox, engine etc. replacement, although the correct type for the car, will be a different ser'l no. to the original.

If these scans of illustrations from 948cc and 1098cc driver's handbooks respectively are a true representation then there are external differences, e.g. 25D stamping, A R position, lt connection type. From what I can gather, maybe incorrectly, the DM2 has side entry cap. Don't know if there were both top or side on the 25D.

Right 57 there is a physical difference then but as you say the with caps both types seem to be fitted although the later top entry are probably more popular as they are cheaper and I think the leads are also cheaper.

Probably the top entry cap is compatible with both and as you say Kevin, is more popular and probably more readily available. Also from what I've read the DM2 P4 superceded the DM2, some "improvement" with the c.b. set up.
My saloon still has the steel vacuum advance pipe with the trap mid span and screw connector at the distributor end but the Traveller has the plastic tube with rubber push on connections.
I suppose it's possible that the steel pipe was a carry over from when the original 948 was replaced by a 1098. The old later 948 air filter casing was fitted until I changed it for the 1098 type.

Thanks folks for all your support and research.
I am satisfied that the late 998cc engines were fitted a 25D4 dizzy.
I am left with the problem of trying to get the right 25D4. There are a fair number and Lucas had a few different part numbers for them.
I understand that it is easy to identify by year and engine if someone had original Lucas parts manual for the early 60s.
Anyone out there got sucu a thing or know someone that might??
cheers for all your help.
Leyland

Leyland,

I too have a late 948 (July 1962) The Distributor you need is a Lucas 25D4 '40770A'

Advance details gleaned from the Internet are:

Below 200 RPM None
500 RPM 2.25 +or- 1 degree
1100 RPM 9 +or- 1 degree
2800 RPM 16 +or- 1 degree

The Vacuum advance unit should provide 4 degrees of advance

Hope this helps

Leyland,

I omitted to say on my previous response that the manufacturing date stamped on my 25D4 is 'Apl 62'. I believe that this is in keeping with the manufacturing date of my moggie (July 62) and would point to its being the original item.

Hello Woo
I am greatly indebted to you for your information. I think we should be spot-on with the details as my car is was built on 13 July 1962, but sadly does not have the original dizzy
Out of interest would yours have been fitted with side-entry leads?
I look forward to more news from you
regards
Leyland

Leyland,

I've had my moggie for 9 years and the previous owner had it for 33 years. So it is literally 'second hand' The first owner was pretty strict about keeping it original, so I'm taking the view that everything on it is as a 1962 948 should be. Of course I check up with the 'Original Morris Minor' book to be sure. But I think the book is a bit hazy about the later 'crossover' 948's

My understanding is that the 25D4 Distributor came with a top feed Cap. I have just put a side feed on mine, simply because I find it easier to neaten up the spaghetti of the HT cables with it.

You should have a 'Saucepan' type air filter. Getting replacement filters for these are difficult. I've managed to pick up a couple at the last two annual rallies. Otherwise spares places generally advise you to stuff a 1098 filter into the Saucepan which is a different shape. It's worth looking around for the original filters which have straighter sides.

I think the late 948's are great. This is my second. Clap hand wipers, 'Infuriating' Rear Indicators that flash the breaklights and a really sweet engine. My car recently did the Barnsley JOGLE in 18 and a half hours. When the engine is set up nicely they don't miss a beat and you can literally take them anywhere. The only problem I had was that the wind was so strong in Scotland that at one point a had to Accelerate to go down a hill against the headwind.

My car, a Black 2 door 'DeLuxe' model was first registered 24th July 1962. Engine number 9M-U-H629226 and Chassis number M/A2S3D/1980572. I would be interested to know how 'near' our vehicles are in terms or the production run.


I will be glad to provide any further info you need.

Hi Woo
Thanks for your note, very interesting reading. I too think the 948cc are great engines. I am trying to rebuild my present one to original spec.

In Ray's 'Original Morris Minor' on page 123 he shows a photo of original electrics as fitted to a 1962 car. The 25D4 dizzy shown has side entry leads, which made me think that the late 948s were like that.

Our cars are very closelt matched. Mine is also a deluxe model with 'duotone' interior. Almond green. I have the 8 way relay unit with original lighting etc.

Chassis No M-A2S3/980342, engine 9AM-U-H 617109
built on 13th July, delivered on 24th July, registered 1st Aug 1962.

I assume the chassis number you have shown doesn't have a one infront of the 9!

I wonder as my engine is a few before yours if the dizzy still had side entry leads. I am determined to get to the bottom of this. Keep in touch.

Ty