electronic ignition

[cadetchris]

having previously had a problem starting the car, my parents bought me one of these accuspark electronic ignition dizzys for christmas,

fitted it and hey presto beautiful first time starting but at a price.

having taken it for a run today i noticed two things,
firstly it was very down on performance, it takes a lot longer to attain any speed
secondly it seems down on power. there is a hill at the end of my village and before Primrose would dance up this in 3rd and maintain a nice 35-40, now i have to rag the DONT SWEAR OR YOU WILL BE BANNED off it in second just to get up the hill at a pace faster than a glacier, so something is wrong and considering the only thing changed is the dizzy thats got to be the problem, but what is causing it? timing? cra**y electronic ignition thing?
any one with one of these things experience anything similar?

[Alec]

Hello Chris,

you can't just fit and expect it to work striaght off, you'll need now to optimise the timeing.

Alec

[cadetchris]

and thats done how?i did fettle with the timing and it is running a lot better than it was, its just the whole power or lack of it

[Alec]

Hello Chris,

do you have a strobe light as this will give you some idea of where the timing is, otherwise it is trial and error.

I understood that you have a complete new distributor, again if you have a strobe it is worth checking how much mechanical advance it is giving. It should match your original one, which is about 18 degrees mechanical and eight vacuum.

Alec

[cadetchris]

i do thankfully have a strope light thing, bit of a whim and not to sure how it works tbh,

[Alec]

Hello Chris,

disconnect the vacuum pipe to the distributor, connect the strobe to the engine and start it up (Warmed up engine at a nice steady idle). Point it to the timing marks and see where the timing is. You only need a ball park setting of say 3 to 4 degrees so aim to adjust the distributor to give that. Then rev the engine to above about 3,000 rpm and you should see the timing advance to about 23/4 or so degrees BTDC.
Vacuum is a little more dificult without a vacuum gauge to judge it, however at a part throtlle, connect the vacuum pipe and you should see some advance when it's connected.

Once you are fairly near then road test and do final adjustments. You want to advance the timing until it starts to pink at slow speed with open throttle then just retard until it doesn't pink. That should be the optimum timing.

Alec

[cadetchris]

well ill have a fettle tomorrow and see if i can sort it

[linearaudio]

Good words of advice from Alec there!
However,for various reasons, not least the ridiculous position of the timing marks, I tend to work by ear, gut feeling etc! With the dizzy clamp loose enough that you can turn the dizzy stiffly by hand, start the engine and twist it clockwise until the revs rise to a maximum without sounding rough. Check by giving it a rev here and there. Then drive up the road (put the bonnet down and take the tools from off the top of the battery first ) If the engine is pinking at all (nasty rattlyish sound) under lowish revs and heavy load, ie accelerating hard in second from a crawl, then stop and twist the dizzy back a bit anti-clockwise to retard the timing. Ideal is so you are just out of the pinking zone. You will probably get a fair idea of how much turning the dizzy affects things by doing the initial step, but a realistic small change in timing will be acheived by twisting by something like 3-5mm at the radius of the dizzy body. I believe a lot of people are worried that the timing is down to imperceptible movements of the dizzy. In the world of Moggys and probably any normal car with adjustable dizzy, you are not going to get down to that level. Workshop manual data is probably irrelevant due to the different fuels used nowadays, also you need to have faith that the factory timing marks were/are accurate! I stopped using the factory data long ago, when I found that you could not get contact gap, dwell angle, and timing marks all to work on my a+ Metro!
Vacuum advance is easily checked by taking off the vacuum pipe at tickover. If the revs change then it is working!

[bmcecosse]

Advance it till it pinks - then retard v slightly. I see no benefit from 'strobe' - what use will it be? Pinking (or lack of it) is what MATTERS...

[linearaudio]

[quote="bmcecosse"].... I see no benefit from 'strobe' - what use will it be?
A good practical way to teach you to keep well clear of the spinning yellow fan??
Happy New Year, Roy! (sorry about my heinous talk of disc brakes from time to time!)

[cadetchris]

so which way do i turn the dizzy to advance it and which way to retard it.

[Alec]

Hello BMCE,

simple, it gives a fairly accurate starting point. Chris has already tried swinging the distributor with little success.
Also it gives a check of advance at higher revs to determine if the distributor is behaving as it should. Incidentally, I onced owned a car which the workshop manual specified the timing should be set at 3,000 rpm using a strobe.
You may have the skill to tune by ear but not everyone is as experienced and some form of measurement is beneficial, as I said, particularly as a starting point.

Chris, I forget which way the rotor turns but you advance against the rotation and vice versa to retard.

Alec

[Chris Edgar]

rotor turns anti-clockwise, so turn dist body clockwise to advance,
anti clockwise to retard.

I have always set timing for "best idle" initially
& then further adjusted for the "just not pinking" as previously described

[bmcecosse]

The engine is running - so it simply needs advancing until it goes well! I was given a strobe over 40 years ago - still to find a use for it...... It's hopeless - we have no idea what settings to use - any Manual is just a guess made way back in the 60s when the fuel was very different. Setting by listening for pinking is the only way...... Of course - this new dizzy may have a completely incorrect advance curve-----depends what engine spec it was designed for.....

[Alec]

Hello BMCE

"this new dizzy may have a completely incorrect advance curve-----depends what engine spec it was designed for....."

exactly, hence my advice in my first post which a strobe will detect to some degree.

Alec

[cadetchris]

well ill have a fiddle this afternoon and try it both with the strop light and then if that inevitably fails, it will be by ear.

[Biggles1957]

I have electronic dizzy's from AccuSpark on a Series III Land-Rover and on my '69 Traveller. Set them up with my strobe and they are brilliant. Found it easiest on the Traveller to get my son to lay on the floor and watch the timing marks while I twiddled the dizzy. Moggie runs brilliantly - no problems with AccuSpark at all IMHO - my moggie is my main vehicle and used most days - starts first time every time and runs and drives really well.

[lambrettalad]

hi same as biggles,I used a strobe at around 800 rpm my best setting was 1 degree btc.
that was some weeks ago ,been out today 80 mile run going like a dream.

if you have the right dizzy and it isn't faulty ,then all things being equal,it must be the timing

[cadetchris]

just a wee update on the ignition,

decided to use the strobe light and immediately discovered the ignition was retarded by approx 30 degrees, hence the total lack of power,acceleration etc.
however, brought the timing back to the recommended 2 degree advance (as the book says) and hey presto, the acceleration and power are back and they have bought friends, so Primrose can get to a reasonable speed easily and without having to thrash 3rd gear.

so all in all, i am pleased as punch that the car is back to full working order.