Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi, I have just joined the club and bought a '56 minor - my first minor (having previously owned an Austin Allegro) and have a serious problem. I would be grateful for your advice...

It is an 803, completely original, and after I bought it gave it an oil & filter change with quality 20/50w. However there is the yellow/white gunk on the oil filler cap, and there is water in the oil to such an extent that the oil warning light comes on when idling at working temp. The engine is running smoothly and has not visibly used any water, also there is no trace of oil in the rad. BUT another explanation (I hope) instead of it being the headgasket, is that there was a water leak (a bad weep really) on the heater tap at the back of the block (now cured).
Can a leaking heater tap cause so much water to get into the engine, though? It is wet all round the back of the block where the gearbox joins,and round the head and water pump (I even changed the water pump gasket but there was no sign of failure on the old one).
The engine does not run rough even when warm, and is surprisingly quiet for an A series.

PS when I had the water pump off the thermostat by-pass hose had to come off (I ended up cutting it off)... and then a new one put back on. I have never had such a b*****d of a job so I cut the hose a bit short and hoped I'd get away with it... guess what? It is now leaking here too. So if anyone knows of a way to get this swine of a hose on without removing the head I would be grateful.

Sorry for this essay but I would rather paint a full picture of what is going on. I do not want to cure all the hose leaks, change the oil AGAIN only to find water is still getting in.

Please help!

Worst senario you have a cracked engine block, not so bad a leaking head gasket. There is no way that a leaking tap, water pump or bypass hose is going to let water into the engine.
Since you have just bought the car you have no knowledge of its history. If you bought it from a proffessional establishment then you have or had some redress although by doing maintenance you have probably invalidated any warranty, if you bought it privately then unless the vendor stated that the engine was in good condition then you are on your own.
If you are capable of removing and replacing an engine then it is not too expensive to acquire another engine and you might take the opportunity to upgrade. Most Minors have had an engine change at some time

You say it's not using any water - and then you describe Niagara Falls all round the engine ! Doesn't add up. The bypass hose is fitted with the water pump - needs to be a solid wall hose (not the silly concertina one) and use good clips. Take the rocker cover off and clean out all the gunge, and clean or renew the breather pipe running from the cover to the air cleaner - this allows the engine to suck away any moisture. It's also important that the engine gets up to full running temperature - so make sure there is a good working thermostat (better 88 deg in winter) in the head. It's not unusual to find the oil light flickering at idle - and it's not anything to do with water in the oil. Lift the idle speed slightly if you don't like it! Of course a proper oil pressure gauge should be your top priority so you KNOW what's going on. Where did you get the oil filter for that engine ?? It is the screw-in can on the side of the block - yes?

Sorry if I wasn't clear on the water consumption. To clarify: first of all there was just a weep from the heater tap, no other visible leaks - water level did not drop in the radiator after say 30+ miles. However water evident in oil - sludge round filler cap &c.

Then I took off the water pump to inspect the gasket as there was water round here and the head at no.1 cyl. Water pump gasket ok, but came to replace the bypass hose (old one straight, new one straight) and cut it slightly short as the only way to get it on. This is now leaking, which has caused the Niagra situation you describe.

So, the problem of water in the oil was there before I started taking things apart, is still there now with the additional problem of the by-pass hose pouring out!!!

PS oil filter is screw on to the block, original equipment type and was a brand new, quality filter fitted when I serviced the car.

PPS the original owner from new to a few years ago did not use antifreeze, drained the water completely over winter and laid the car up. For the last 3-4 years the car has had antifreeze.

Ahh thanks- thought these filters were v hard to find these days. The bypass hose is fitted to the waterpump - and then it is fitted to the head as the pump is lifted up into position. Easier than taking the head off. The water in oil is almost certainly just condensation - clear the rocker cover and breather pipe, check the thermostat - and take it out for a good long run !

as bmc says the mayonaise (White sludge) on the filler cap is not a sign of water in the oil. Its caused by low temp and short journeys the air flow over the rocker cover causes the condensation to mix with the oil in the rocker cover.Just get the emgine up to temp and take it for a long fast run.After you have fixed the water leaks of course.Also make sure the breather is clear.It also helps in the winter to take the fan off , to stop the air flow over the engine ,some run all year with no fan it will only over heat if stood for long periods in traffic.

Thanks, I shall do so today. It will be a relief if it is just condensation. But in such a case how would you explain the low oil pressure light flickering at idle, and also (which I forgot to mention earlier) the gunk and water dripping out of the breather pipe on the tappet chest cover? The engine has only covered approx. 39k miles.

I also have a 1956 series II that I use pretty much as my everyday car. I have exactly the same issue as you, but I don't see it as a major problem, at least for the time being.

The engine has never been touched in 55 years (until I took the head off to check everything was ok) and runs sweet as a nut with 72k miles. I also have quite a lot of sludge build up in the rocker (hence the head check) but it stays clean on a long run. I haven't checked the tappet chest breather filter yet, but the rocker cover breather is clear. It's worse in cold weather and I tend to do a lot of short journeys.

I change the oil and filter (readily available btw Roy!) every 1000 miles or so (four times this year) as it gets black very quickly, due to the amount of sludge in the sump, I assume. The car would have been run on single weight oils for the first years of its life and sludge build up was normal. Cleaning out the sump was part of normal servicing back in the day. I have always had the intention of completely stripping and rebuilding the engine, but while it runs so well I shall not bother.

I also run unleaded without any mods or additives, as I do on all my classics.

UPDATE: hi all, I have managed to stop all the water leaks and took the car out on a good run. In the words of Basil Fawlty gave it 'a damn good thrashing'. This has done the trick and the sludge has gone. The car sounds better too.

Thanks for all your help - the fact that I thought it was a gasket problem/cracked block made me use the car only for short runs at a time, which naturally added to the build up of crud in the rocker cover.

Thanks again and happy motoring.

Great success - happy motoring !