Morris Minor Owners Club

so, just rebuilt the new engine for Primrose, torqued everything down, put it in all the right way (for a change) and liberally soaked everything with oil as i went.

and when i come to start it up,

click of the solenoid and thats it.

whipped the plugs out, turned it over on the handle which was backbreaking then on the starter to get the juices flow and still, just a click.

another handle twist and plugs back in and a few turn overs and then the engine stops.

so after all of that, i presume that the engine is very stiff owing to all the new bearings, piston rings and lack of use.

so how does one make the engine less stiff? OR give the starter a bit more umphf to get it going?

Chris- was your engine still in standard trim? It sounds to me like the crank is binding, either at the big ends or mains. Is it possible that your got oversize shells in either by mistake?

Hello Chris,

I'm afraid it sounds as if you are going to have to strip it down again. It shouldn't be stiff so there must be something overtight.

You could just drop the sump and slacken all the big ends and see if that frees it, if not then slacken the mains also. Tighten one bearing at a time until it tightens again, that's where you need to look. A lesson hard learned I'm afraid; when assembling check by turning as you go along?

Alec

it was a totally standard engine when i got it and i transplanted my new crank with the barely used bearings from my broken engine. i also transplanted the standard pistons from that engine as well. so i know everything was free and worked when it was in the old engine. the only thing that hasn't been replaced is the cam.

so i am not sure really, i dont really want to drop the sump and faff around with bearing caps, as its a pain in the rear bumper to do when lying down and i dont have a spare gasket.

so worst case scenario, engine out and disassemble to find out what is binding. i know its not the crank as i did as suggested, tighten each bearing in turn an see if its binding and it went freely.

but thinking back, it was a sod to turn the crank whilst putting on the timing chain, so it must be something at the bottom end.
so ill check con rod bearings and if that reveals nothing, ill disconnect each piston and see if that moves freely in the bore, if it dosent, then all i can assume is that one of the rings is binding.

Hi Chris
This happened to me as I was building the engine, one of the new shells on the main bearings stopped the crank from turning when tightened, all others OK, everything had been thoroughly cleaned (or not!).
I could not see what the problem was so asked a retired mechanic friend to take a look and it was a tiny amount of baked on oil/carbon stopping the shells from seating (just looked like a stain to me) a rub with very fine wet and dry on the on the bearing connecting cap and all turned ok
Good luck
Reg

With the engine in-situ, you could take the cam chain off and rocker shaft off, then try the starter. With the plugs out it should spin freely in this situation.Then try turning the cam sprocket. With no valve gear to move (rocker shaft still removed) it should turn easily. You haven't rebuilt it with a 1275 type oil pump by any chance? That is what I did initially and had the same problem, as the nose is longer, and makes the camshaft seize on a 1098!!

solved the question myself.
i am a total idiot at times.

so allow me to explain, when i rebuilt my previous engine, the piston rings where too big and exactly the same thing happened, so i bought new pistons with matching rings.

when installing one of the pistons, the oil control ring became mangeled slightly, so i took it off and put one of the "spare rings" on, which where the rings that didnt fit in the first place.

so after i have put it all back together, the oil ring in piston number 2 or 3 ( i cannot remember for sure) is simply to big for the bore and preventing the piston from moving freely, which accounts for partial movement of the engine.

stupid mistake which i have only just realised.

Oh my God!!! I remember that post!! Some of us never learn do we! Glad you sorted it out- bet you don't do it again next time!

Congrats, Chris. Better to feel like a bonehead but realize your mistake than to waste a lot of time. Now, if you could solve my oil-burning problem (see my other posts) you'd have "genius" status reinstated!

well its safe to say that i am throwing those rings out once i get them out. stupid mistake done again.

Hello Chris,

how on earth did you get the piston in the bore with an oversized ring?

Alec

As Alec has said, I wouldnt have thought you would have been able to get the piston into the bore if the rings were too big, it simply wouldnt fit.

Did you put the appropiate piston and connecting rod in the appropiate cylinder and did you put the connecting rods onto the appropiate crank journals on the right way around. Connecting rods are handed, they have different off sets.

If you havent put the right connecting rod onto the right crank journal your trying to bend one or more connecting rods, they'll almost certainly be bent now and I suspect you'll need a new set of rods

You should have turned the crank over by hand when you where building the engine up.

Cheers

Steve

If as said, when the crank is installed it should rotate evenly, without binding. And you could try attaching one of the con-rods out of the bore, just to confirm that you have the correct con-rod bearings. Also, check that the new rings fit in the bore correctly. Try one of them in the bore to confirm the correct gap (off the piston) You may have already done all of this.

I did have a problem early on with the crank binding on one of the Shell caps, which at first I couldn't remedy, until I replaced it with a sprare cap. Perhaps, as has been mentioned, there was dirt on it that I hadn't spotted.

I have to say when I re-built my engine with new componants it was quite stiff to turn. I could turn it by hand on the pulley (no head on) but it required some effort.
I was so concerned that I took it apart and re-checked. It was all good but a tad stiff on assembly.
Problem is I'd nothing to compare it with (never done it before).

Anyway, engine was and is good. I've removed head (after a couple of thou miles) and bores are still good.

If you have followed the step by step guide in the manual, in theory it should be ok. Check and re-check if you're not sure.

As various others have suggested - you absolutely MUST check the engine for free-turning at every step of the assembly. I too doubt the 'too big rings' idea - since they would never go down the bores. You do have the rods in the correct bores -and right way round ? Cam timed in correctly ? As above - correct oilpump fitted?? You absolutely MUST find this problem -meantime make no further effort to turn the engine on the starter, or in any way to start it!

Did you replace the timing chain with a duplex one?
The countersunk screws have to be almost flush with the front plate or they bind on the back of the bottom gear.

Check that you've put the oil thrower for the timing chain case on the right way round. I made this mistake once - everything seemed fine when assembling the engine, but once the crank pulley was tightened up, it became so stiff that the starter motor couldn't turn it. Opened it up, realised my mistake, corrected it and all was fine.

eventually got around to making a start on this problem, so my first instinct was to check the pistons and to necessitate this, i whipped off the head.
before i put the car on the ramps with the aid of dad, i thought i would see if the engine would turn over slightly without the head....

hey presto, a beautiful smooth free turning engine,

so that moves the problem of being stiff from the bottom, to the top of the engine.

what could it be???
i cannot be stuck valves as i have had them all out, reground them into there seats and new seals with the original springs. could it be very very stiff rockers?
uber high compression?

what i do know is that the rods along the side that control the rockers (the name escapes me atm) all move freely and easily. so as to what it is, i am at a loss.

Hello Chris,

very unusual? I would replace the head (only) and try again, my guess it will still be free. All that would leave then is the rockers and valves. Have a look at all the pushrods to check if any are bent, (just roll them on a flat surface) I'm guessing (wildly) that a rocker was not seated in the pushrod cup and the valve spring was coilbound?

Alec

Rockers are easily checked - unlikely to be that anyway. You need to spin the engine up without plugs anyway to get oil pressure before you even think about starting it.......

Slightly wacky idea, but does any part of the piston rise above the level of the block?
I think the torque in the starter motor would bend the push rods one at a time if the resistance was from the valves or rockers.