Morris Minor Owners Club

Just some random thoughts...

Has anyone tried to put side impact bars into Minor doors? Although accepting that older cars are less accident-resistant than moderns I just wondered if anyone had tried to modernise the bodyshells to make them stronger/safer?

A couple of other minor queries

Is there not surely scope for a modern MInor retro in mould of new mini and new fiat 500?

Why has no-one invested in making replacement whole body shells again like Mini, Midget, MGB etc. I would have thought return on investment would be high!?

I wold think that to fit side bars you would have to reinforce the doors then change locks reinforce bodyshell so that the forces coming through the door frames were dissappated correctly through the shell so not an easy mod ( please correct me if im wrong as I am not a car designer so just a laymans observations)

If the Minor was redesigned then it would have to comply with today's regulations and you would end up with another bloated carricature of the original. Lets just leave the Minor the way it was meant to be

An MGB shell is about £6-7K so adding the cost of a respray and all the associated work and taking into account Minor resale values would it be worth it? Might be to a die hard Minor enthusiast.

DON'T TRY AND FIT DOOR BARS, if you were to have an accident the disapation forces on a minor are not as good as a modern car, you stand a very good chance of the door bar being pushed forward or rearward thus jamming the door or doors shut, the wide void inside a moggie and the thickness of metal used should give enough proctection on a side impact as a modern car is designed to crumple on impact, the other thought is if you were to hit a modern car in a moggie you would probably make a total write off of it, as my son found out several years ago in his pick up they were sweeping up bits of the other car weeks afterward. don't mess around and change as it might change you.

Alan Pearse wrote:DON'T TRY AND FIT DOOR BARS, if you were to have an accident the disapation forces on a minor are not as good as a modern car, you stand a very good chance of the door bar being pushed forward or rearward thus jamming the door or doors shut, the wide void inside a moggie and the thickness of metal used should give enough proctection on a side impact as a modern car is designed to crumple on impact, the other thought is if you were to hit a modern car in a moggie you would probably make a total write off of it, as my son found out several years ago in his pick up they were sweeping up bits of the other car weeks afterward. don't mess around and change as it might change you.

I'd tend to agree with this. Modern cars are designed to have doorbars as an integral part of the structure. Adding them to a car as an afterthought could possibly make things worse. The best person to advise on this is John Beardmore, as he designs safety systems for a living. He did the passive safety systems on the Jag XF IIRC.
My approach to crash safety in old cars is 'try not to crash'!

Fit seat belts by all means and leave it at that.

Just to be clear, I have no intention of fitting door bars. My question was a more general one about whether attempts had been made to reinforce the bodyshells.

I think the normal thing that is done to make cars (old and new) safer in an accident is to fit a roll cage. Perhaps the question is more about what level of safety cage is available for a Minor?

Failing that (fitting a cage) the best thing one can do is restore the car, to make sure that there is no corrosion, as that is by far the biggest issue with impact protection in old cars.

The whole thing is so complex that there cannot possibly be a right , or even better, way of doing anything! If two crumple-zoney type new cars hit head on, it is totally different to one crumple zoney new car hitting a dust cart! If two Range Rovery bullbar clad types hit each other the forces are different again. If any super-duper "ncap" thing with 8 years worth of corrosion in its laminated strengthening due to the known ability of moisture to wick through small gaps, hits another similar, then that is another different set of forces again. The angle of impact, speed and all sorts make it an impossible thing to categorise in real life terms! Best thing is to drive as alertly as possible, with the thought in your mind that your Moggy has managed the last 40+ years OK, and not to get too paranoid about airbags, impact damage at 60mph, ABS etc etc!

I'd tend to agree with this. Modern cars are designed to have doorbars as an integral part of the structure

You'd like to think so but...The Ford Fiesta mk3 has no side impact bars. The mk3.5 has. Both cars are identical. The only difference to accomodate the 'bars' are a set of solid brackets welded in the doors to hold them.
But granted, I wouldnt want to retro fit them - they're in the same category as 'show' roll cages. More likely to brake off/apart and do more damage than they prevent!
Besides - anyone whos seen a Minor door and lifted one off the car should be more than confident in their protective ability as standard!

dunketh wrote: Besides - anyone whos seen a Minor door and lifted one off the car should be more than confident in their protective ability as standard!

You're not joking, they're massively heavy

'Scuse the late reply - I've only just seen this thread.

I've actually fitted steel side impact beams (college table legs) into the aluminium doors of my Rover P4. But with the Minor restoration project I'm not bothering. On the Rover I'm concerned about the doors bending in a modest speed impact - less of a risk with the Minor's steel doors. And the deep fluting of the doors must add lateral strength.

Side impact beams would need a large overlap between door panel and the door aperture to work, which I'm not sure the Minor has. And would there still be room to wind the windows down?

My recommendation to reduce the risk of a prang is to join the Institute of Advanced Motorists and prepare for their Advanced test.

As already suggested - the doors are plenty heavy/sturdy as they are. Modern doors are very light/thin steel - hence the need for 'bars'. Fit a full cage with side bars if seriously worried. There was a 'design' for a Minor 2000 at the time of the Millenium - a missed chance I would say for MG/Rover. And I have suggested before that Minor Convertible shells would be relatively easy to make since no roof to worry about - and hugely popular I'm sure. Unless the MMOC is willing to put pressure on Heritage - perhaps even willing to pay for some of the press tools, I can't see it happening any time soon.

bmcecosse wrote: And I have suggested before that Minor Convertible shells would be relatively easy to make since no roof to worry about - and hugely popular I'm sure. Unless the MMOC is willing to put pressure on Heritage - perhaps even willing to pay for some of the press tools, I can't see it happening any time soon.

I'm sure that if Minor body shells were a viable business proposition Heritage would have considered producing them by now. To reproduce the original press tools and jigs would be hugely expensive - apparently it takes an average of 5 press tools to make one panel and the press tools can cost in excess of £50k each. New MGB and Sprite body shells cost around £6,000 so I expect that a Minor convertible body shell would sell for a similar price. Bearing in mind that the majority of Minor owners are attracted by the low costs of ownership, and for £6,000 you could buy an entire convertible in very good condition, I think that it's very doubtful that convertible body shells would sell in enough numbers to recoup the costs of the tooling.

Interesting debate. Most likely scenario in my view is that one day, a manufacturer will decide to do a New Minor on steroids like the "new" beetles and minis but only if guaranteed sufficient worldwide return on investment. Current economic climate? it could be a long wait!

Interesting to see how the sales of "new" Minis and Beetles are holding up, poorly probably as you say.

They picked the Mini over the Minor because it has a better "Image" .

Now things are tougher, function is a lot more interesting than form.