Morris Minor Owners Club

This thread now trundles merrily along to some kind of conclusion.................


(Re-post due to clicking error).

I hope you are all well!


No matter what I try, I can't get a picture up. I never used to have a problem......any pointers, please?


(Imagine a picture of the underside of my car)


I painted the entire understand last autumn. Getting it clean was a chore. I didn't want to use flap disks on the grinder, and the cup brush wouldn't really take everything off. So in the end it all got a good scratching by hand.......ultimately with the tip of a needle file, all over. This year I've pretty much finished repairing the rest.

The crossmember was made to my pattern at a local machine shop here in Poland, and is looking good.

The last hole? (This is referred to in text on the photo).

No. Today I decided to expose the bowl in the passenger-side kidney panel (never been there!) by removing the part of the inner wing which covers it. Now the body is nearly done, I'm getting very nitpicky! It's no bother now to cut stuff off and have a look within, to make sure all's well......only a small amount of time and work compared to what I've been through. Amazingly, the only rust was in the area where the kidney panel bowl is spot welded to the flitch (what a dumb idea, eh? "Let's incorporate a water/dirt trap"). Everywhere else (that I haven't welded) in that section still has the original enamel-like coating from the factory.

I cut out the flat bottom of the kidney bowl, and decided to reduce the depth of the bowl by cutting before welding a plate in place, so there will be a space between it and the flitch when it's finished. I plan to weld two strips of metal to the bowl bottom, as viewed from outside of the car, and these in turn will be welded to the flitch repair plates in lieu of the four or five spot welds. Or, if using a production repair panel, slots could be cut which line up with the strips, so they protrude through a bit for welding up. The weld can then be ground flat.

In the "diagram " below you can see how I plan to position the metal strips.........thus avoiding any water traps.

(Imagine a lame diagram)



So, lots of fun here in the garden. The weather's perfect, and I don't like welding as much as I used to!

Right.....I just uploaded Microsoft lillies.............back soon ( I took the lillies off. Apologies to all lilly fans).

No apologies to Microsoft fans .

Here we go then.....a Moggie mod..........an attempt to rectify a bizarre design fault.......

Here's the snipped-down-bowl repair-plate in place:


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In the original design, next, there would have been a single straight red line(two panels touching)...............whilst the repair plate was still hot, I whacked it with a hammer to make it concave.......the thing with two holes in it is my straight edge:

[frame][/frame]


Weld the strips on, nice and strong (don't weld too high - then there's scope for bending them into position when your template lets you down :


[frame][/frame]


I'm astonished how good these pictures are..............

Template time - keep your thumb nails long to make this easy:

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Cut the slots in your repair panel, and offer it up into position (I'll skip the necessary procedures - patience is king!):

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Weld the strips to the cover plate, making sure you catch them well:[frame][/frame]

Then blob it all in and grind artistically so it all looks like Lord Nuffield intended:[frame][/frame]


I'm doing beer now......more later!

Happy weekend!


Here's a Moggie poster, from the first picture here:


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We just love it, don't we?



Here's the lame diagram mentioned earlier. If you need this to continue, seek help :


[frame][/frame]

Looks interesting! You've done some fine welding. Why exactly did you do this? I'm not sure I see what fault in the design this rectifies...is it a problem to have the kidney plate depression and the (what's it called, flitch?) inner wing touching?

Hi!

I'll dig out the bits I cut off and post a pic tomorrow (dark now).

Well, a water/dirt trap is formed when the two panels touch. In my case, there were no holes, but there was what I call "cancerous" corrosion taking place around the point of contact. My thinking is that it's difficult if not impossible to get any protective agent in between the two panels at that point.

I reckon the worst-case scenario would be wet carpets, but, theoretically, the structure is weakened as the integrity of this point deteriorates. Restoring this car is something of a swan song for me (I'm 55, so nothing has to last as long as when I was 25 ). But, nevertheless, I'm going all the way! Just the once.......a proper job..........my best shot.....for posterity, if you like.

We all have our own criteria. Mine is that I never have to weld on this car again.........my own lifetime guarantee. Others prefer original panels. Personally, I like to ram in so much MIG that in three hundred years time all you'd see is a fine skeleton of the shape of a Morris Minor, in MIG weld bead .

I know......get a life !

Remember.....water gets EVERYWHERE on a car.............impossible to win. A slowing down of the effects is possible, which is why, even though the mod is invisible, I grind it to the same smoothness as a visible repair. Then, when water attacks the body, it will at least do it in style ................running quickly to the drain hole.

Found it.......the flitch panel bit.............easy to see which part was sandwiched up against the bottom of the kidney bowl! The corrosion seems to stay localized, but one day.................a general underfoot sogginess, leading to more trouble with the floor, perhaps.

Anik says:

NO!

Your car is slowly dying! Invisible forces are at work! Together, we can survive!

Righty ho! How do I join?



[frame][/frame]

On the other hand there is a certain amount of rigiditry gained by the two panels being fixed together.

"Get a life" my foot. I think that's great. It's like what I did with the boot 't-bar' so I could fit a wider wheel in the spare bay. Innovation, my friend! And it's your Minor, do what you think is necessary.

Fingolfin wrote:"Get a life" my foot. I think that's great. It's like what I did with the boot 't-bar' so I could fit a wider wheel in the spare bay. Innovation, my friend! And it's your Minor, do what you think is necessary.

Well, it's an idea.....a technique......the slots.....could come in useful in another area, for some, some day. I still enjoy the "thinking" aspect of fabrication. Making templates? They're always "off", no matter what I do . And grinding? I get results if I focus on it. The welding itself? Good days, bad days. I've learned to change the tip at the first hint of trouble.

Hi Les!

This kind of thing is rather unquantifiable. The picture of the bit from the flitch panel which was in contact with the bottom of the kidney bowl tells a story. I don't think I've sacrificed any rigidity. How rigid can a rusting piece of metal be, ultimately? Progressively less so, I decided. I reckon the bottom of the kidney bowl could be cut off from a repair panel, and the edges of the bowl welded to the flitch from the inside, eliminating the "sandwich". How weaker could this be, in effect, if all the panels around it are up to spec? It's a Moggie after all, not a 747!

It was just a point of view Mick, when working on this area on my van the butting up of these panels were a tough job to seperate 40 years on! However point taken, it does encourage a capillary action type of thing.

(My reply after this, Les).

I forgot to add the picture of the underside of my Morris, so here it is:

[frame][/frame]


I welded this up to MOT standard (and got one!) when I was back in England, so I could drive it to Poland. But the car was sandwiched between a house and a fence, on a steepish slope, and it wasn't possible to open a door fully even when the car was right up against the fence or the house. I couldn't do the proper job, though. So what I'm doing now is removing all the repairs which don't look good, even though they are solid and would last for years .

Pretty crazy, really. I mean, few people will ever see what's been done. With the floor, I'm welding the repair plates on both sides, and grinding flat the beads under the floor. Then it will look very nice when it's up on the lift for it's one-off Polish MOT, part of the registration process here. The beads on the upper side of the floor are getting a grind, but remain visible, to ensure full strength. There won't be any underseal on this car, only paint. I've used Hammerite, and am pleased with the results. The car was under an open cover last winter, and there's nothing at all coming through the paint so far. After cleaning everything off, the whole underside was degreased using copious amounts of cheap cellulose gunwash and mountains of rags. I was lucky with the weather - extremely low humidity during painting. I hand painted it first, then went over it with the spray gun whilst still tacky. The new metal will be left to stand until spring, so it gets a nice brown coating of light rust ready for the Hammerite. Then a hand sand all over the underside, a swipe with the gunwash, then another hand paint and a spray over.

I'm thinking of painting the front crossmember, the central crossmember, gearbox crossmember , chassis legs, spring hangers and the outer bottom sill plate in black, to make it exceptionally tasty to look at. After all the time and work, doing this will be a great pleasure.

Here's my method for getting the best from my abilities - the "first instinct" rule. Which means, when I look at some part of the body and think "That needs attention", I give it some attention. If I think "that needs more work", I put in more work. The alternative is to think that something needs attention, and then try to talk oneself out of it .

When I'm eventually tootling along the back roads of Poland, I don't want to have any little niggles in my mind......."I should have done this" or "I forgot to do that" - too late then!

I want to be thinking:

"For once in my life, I went all the way on this one".

les wrote:It was just a point of view Mick, when working on this area on my van the butting up of these panels were a tough job to seperate 40 years on! However point taken, it does encourage a capillary action type of thing.

All debate is good debate, Les! The more info folk have available for consideration the better. All this takes a lot of time and energy, plus the costs, so it's priceless to have forums in which they can check out what others are thinking and doing.

It's a very good point you make here. I was thinking this morning......that picture of the flitch plate. This is 45 years old, and I couldn't make a hole in it with my metal-integrity testing procedure. This area would probably have outlived me. But...........it looks horrible, even though it was strong and is hidden from view . I knew it would look as it does. Ugh!

As I've just outlined in my previous post here, I'm going all they way on this car. I'll be doing the same on the other side of the car. It all looks good, and the metal rings brightly under the hammer............but I know there's a "rust butty" in there, and it's coming out . Then I will have seen as much as it's possible to see, of the inside sections of a Morris Minor, and know 100 per cent that there are no sandwiched plates on the car. The strengtheners around the front chassis leg eyebolt tubes have gone.I beefed each of them up by welding a 5mm bit of steel plate to the top of the eyebolt tube and to the underside of the............what's the name? Those supports sitting on the chassis legs, which the rack goes through? Bulkhead supports? I seam welded where the ends of the tubes meet the insides of the chassis legs, and spread lots of weld about. There is a gap, then, between the bottom of the tubes and the bottom of the chassis legs. No traps there! The old diesel oil will cover the bottom the the chassis legs, and I'll be able to do an annual scrape out quite effectively.



Another reason for opening up the lower part of the A-post cover is this: I'd sprayed waxoyl down into the post cover from a hole I made at the top. I wanted to see what was going on, because I've seen water dripping out from the bottom on occasion. After cutting out the metal, I saw there was about two inches of waxoyl at the bottom, and the water had been sitting on top of this. The drain hole was blocked. I'm sure it will be the same on the other side, so will be opening that up so I can get the waxoyl blob out.

I'm at that stage of the restoration where I can stop. But I might has well do everything - the rule of the first instinct. If I think of something beneficial to do, I do it. Simple. It's all easy now. The tough cutting, sometimes through three bodged plates on top of each other, has been done. It's all like a hot knife through butter now, wherever I am on the car. Minutes to remove, a pleasure to weld up.


Good luck to the grimier ones amongst you!

Your 'rule of the first instinct' is excellent.

(I didn't plan on doing so much in this thread - maybe it needs moving over to "Restoration"?)

Just caught your post before I get back to it, Les.........


I've come to see it as the only mind-set for doing a resto. Also, it makes it easier in many ways. Keep a pen and paper handy, and jot down the thoughts as they pop into mind. That way there's a nice "to do" list...............just follow it to the letter and you're done! And you minimize the risk of forgetting something.


Don't weld too near that notepad .

I've found the flat bottom I cut out from the kidney bowl, so here are pictures of each side of it:

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A different story on the other side, the part you can see:

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The corrosion on mine isn't so bad, but I suppose it's possible to be less lucky.