Upgrade information....

[lynda]

If I were to do an upgrade to a 1.3 engine and gearbox, how easy is it to do? Would I need to make any alterations to the car itself? What brake upgrade would you recommend, and have you any idea how much it might cost for the parts?

[Matt]

as far as I know if you get a midget engine its virtually a straight swap (you can probably pick up a descent engine for less than £150 if you look carefully)

Kevin has done it/is finishing off putting in a midget engine, so im sure he will tell you of pitfalls etc

[Alec]

Hello Lynda,
having just completed a MarinaEngine\Marina gearbox conversion, I would say that this is far from easy even with the well equiped workshop that I have. You can buy all the necessary bits from Owen Burton though but I chose to do it myself. It ceratinly is a tight fit around the gearbox bell housing.

Alec

[rayofleamington]

The marina gearbox isn't well liked and is a struggle to fit.
One option is to go for a Midget 1275 gearbox which has the same casing as the 1098 gearbox (fits just like the original).
The further option is a Ford 5 speed box but fitting kits are expensive and it's probably even more complicated to fit than the Marina box.

For a 1300, you really ought to go to disks - the options are limitless, and so are prices - anywhere from a couple of hundred to 3 times that including new calipers etc...

[Alec]

Hello Ray,
But that (Midget 1275 gearbox) surely will not fit a Marina 1275 engine?, and, as I understand, you cannot use a 1098 backplate on a 1275.
With hindsight I should have tuftrided the 1098 crank and used an uprated cam etc. The 1098 already had a 12G940 head, LCB and 1 1\2" SU, and went quite well.

Alec

[Matt]

I dont think it will no, but on the back of a midget engine.......................

[rayofleamington]

But that (Midget 1275 gearbox) surely will not fit a Marina 1275 engine?, and, as I understand, you cannot use a 1098 backplate on a 1275.

not 100% sure on that - If you can't mate a 1098 backplate to the marina engine, there are places who can make up a new backplate for you.
- but as Matt suggested the Midget 1275 engine can be used.

Hopefully Kevin will pick up the thread - or you can search his posts from the last 2 weeks as he's given a running commentry of fitting a 1275.

[turbominor]

1098 back plate wont fit, if i remember right the oil pump is bigger on the 1300's.

If you get new back plate form Owen burton or other MM centers for fitting 1098 box to 1300, you can fit a minor or midget box to an 1300 bock (midget or marina) as the back of the block is the same.

i think the only difference is the flywheel mount ( 4 bolt on minor and midget? and 6 bolt on marina/ital)

[Cam]

You can get a modified Minor flywheel (6 bolt to fit the 1275 crank) from quite a few Minor centres.

[Alec]

Hello all,
yes, all those are possibilities, but I was able to modify the Marina end plate and gearbox. Now I know, I would have taken more metal off the Marina bell housing as it is very tight around that area. The bonus of the Marina gearbox is the possibility to add an overdrive in the future. (More gearbox cover modifications.)

Alec

[lynda]

What about if I was doing the modifications on a 948cc Moggy? Would a Midget gearbox still fit? I may well end up with both a Midget engine and gearbox, as the MG owners club is very close by, and they sell lots of spares (not sure what their prices are like though....).

[lynda]

Are the disk brake conversion kits relatively easy to understand, with all the necessary parts? One of our members just had a conversion done at Pops Place for about 400 GBP, which seems quite reasonable to me with all the labour etc.

[rayofleamington]

One of our members just had a conversion done at Pops Place for about 400 GBP, which seems quite reasonable to me with all the labour etc.

Including labour and VAT - thats sounds a good deal.
Some of the kits are £350 alone - without calipers

[Kevin]

Hi Lynda what did the Disc conversion consist of as that sounds a really good deal as most kits are that price including vat and thats my next step.
The midget engine I have recently put in went in with just niggles rather than problems, I will found out about the backplate as it was already on the engine when I got it, as Turbo says all the gearboxes, Minor,Midget,Marina boxes fit with the 1275cc and the Flywheel is 6 bolt against the Minor 4 bolt one but as stated they are available exchange.
My choice of gearbox was to retain the standard 1098cc one, the reason behind this is that the Marina one is no better and if you want to go down the overdrive route that Alec is hoping to do it involves getting a Dolomite gearbox and making a sort of hybrid box, we did have a branch member with one but it took no end of try`s to get it right and then he said he did not think the effort was worth it (although there is a version using parts from an 1800 marina box but these are so thin on the ground in good condition). I was offered a Midget gearbox when I got the engine but as they are not much stronger than the Minor one and run on roller bearings so they cost a lot more to repair and to use with the original flywheel and clutch (smaller than the Minor) they need a hydraulic conversion to make the clutch far less snatchy.
And as the 5 speed conversions are expensive I stayed with the Minor box and Flywheel with the standard clutch and this is the easiest solution and works fine.
The only alterations to the engine have been to adjust the breather pipe on the timing cover to clear the fan and to sort out the heater contols as the engine fitting is at a different angle, what do you want to achieve.
Have a look under engine transplant saga in the General Discussion section to see the stage I am at.

[rayofleamington]

Deleted the first bit - as Kevin just corrected his text ;-)


If you keep the 1098 standard clutch I don't see why you cant use the 1275 Midget gearbox - or is the input shaft different?

Regarding the 1098 gearbox that's a fair point. A tuned 1098 is probably similar to a standard 1275 power, so the 1098 gearbox will cope with it (but might not last forever). 1098 boxes are still quite easy to find secondhand and normally cheap too.

[Kevin]

Ray thats what I said, but I confess I noticed and changed it before you posted
Correct Ray you can use the Midget box with the standard Minor Clutch and Flywheel as the input shaft is the same, just did not see the real need when my current gearbox is in perfect order + trying to see how reasonably priced the job could be done

[lynda]

I just found the Pops Place website, and decided to give them a ring for prices. It appears that our member was a little bit out in his estimate..... the disks are the Ford ones for £350, and then it costs around £200 to fit.

Their Marina 1300 engine is £150, and a conversion plate is £75. They want £75 for a 1098 gearbox (assuming I start with a 948cc car) and suggested a 4.2 diff for better motorway driving which would be £45. So parts would be £695, and fitting would be an extra £500 or so.

Could someone with no idea (like me) managed to fit all this myself? I'd have to get an engine hoist, but you can hire them for £30 for a weekend.... My Dad would probably help, but at the moment all I'm getting is a really negative attitude from him ('no way you can do all this' etc). I suppose I could invite the Cambridge Branch round for a barbeque and engine swap party

[rayofleamington]

They want £75 for a 1098 gearbox (assuming I start with a 948cc car) and suggested a 4.2 diff for better motorway driving which would be £45

I guess they have to make a living and those are fair prces for a specialist (much better than certain other places I won't mention), but remember that you can get a running but rotted 1098 Minor for about £50 to £75 as a donor car (for the rear axle, diff and gearbox)

And occassionally you will find a donor car for £250ish with 1275 engine and disk brakes. Not sure about this one as there is almost no description but it makes a point:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %3AIT&rd=1

Did you consider the alternative to go for complete 1098 engine, box and axle (all from a late saloon) then to spend at most a few hundred on a 12G295 cylinder head, and a 1.5" carb and a decent manifold. Performance will be similar to a standard 1300 and unless you add a high performance cam it should be just as pleasant to drive around town.

Swapping engines and gearboxes isn't rocket science, but does involve a lot of 'heavy' work as they aren't easy things to pick up and push around. If you want to DIY, then go for it but the risk is that the car ends up as an unfinished project.
Things only get 'complicated' when you get to the stage of 5 speed gearboxes etc.. as the fitting kits sometimes involve a bit of re-engineering.

[Kevin]

Lynda I assume you have not got a car to convert yet it might be better to buy a converted one in the 1st place I know its easier said than done but could be a cheaper solution, and if you are going to the Nationals anything may turn up

[rayofleamington]

Lynda I assume you have not got a car to convert yet

Doh!
Now I just connected this thread to the ones about buying cars
I think I got confused when you mentioned converting a 948 car.

Yes - as Kevin says it may be better to start with an uprated Minor then you don't have all the hassle of doing the mods and they don't fetch much more money than a standard car (often they fetch less than a standard car).
Otherwise you would be best to go for a 1098 minor rather than have to upgrade the rear axle and gearbox etc..