Morris Minor Owners Club

i'm in the process of stripping my moggie back and repairing/replacing any rotten and rusted bits of metal. i would like to try welding myself. Could i have some help of what sort of welder to get? all i know is that i need to get a mig welder. Also, is it easy to learn basic mig welding? I've tried arc welding before now and i didn't get along with it at all!

Well - doesn't sound promising, because arc welding is easy - Mig welding a bit more difficult. Easy enough to spatter on some lumps of metal - but takes time to develop the skills to make good smooth penetrating welds with it. There were some terrific pictures of Mig welded panels on here the other day - made me green with envy!! Buy a good powerful machine that uses shield gas - there are also gas-less machines and while handy for small jobs, not really adequate for serious repairs. The gas is expensive - so you may want to explore hiring a cylinder from a gas supplier rather than the ultra expensive tiny cylinders from Hellfrauds etc. An automatic dimming helmet is virtually essential - not cheap. And a fire extinguisher or two will be useful when the car catches fire..... Get the welder and some scrap sheet steel and start practicing - and if you can find a course at your local Tech College - get signed up for it!

oh, i was under the impression that arc welding was much harder and ive been told for car bodywork i dont need a powerful welder as i only really need it set at 30amps, with arc welding its the striking or the arc i have a problem with! thanks anyway!

bmcecosse wrote: An automatic dimming helmet is virtually essential - not cheap.

Depends what you call cheap. Mine was about £30.

bmcecosse wrote:Easy enough to spatter on some lumps of metal - but takes time to develop the skills to make good smooth penetrating welds with it.

True, but you can always grind off the lumps and have another go. If you don't start, you'll never improve.

bmcecosse wrote:The gas is expensive - so you may want to explore hiring a cylinder from a gas supplier rather than the ultra expensive tiny cylinders

Depends on your point if view i suppose. I find they last very well, and I can weld quite a lot on one cylinder. It's not the cheapest way to buy the gas, but its convenient, and not what I'd call expensive.

Yes - the auto helmets seem to have come down in price quite a bit - they used to be ~£90. Mine is an old one that I rescued from the skip at work many years ago....... I find the small cylinders only last about an hour of welding. Some folks use CO2 gas from 'Pub' cylinders, but it's not as good as an Argon based gas mix. The point about 'grinding off' poor work reminds me - you will also need an angle grinder - and goggles - and ear protection, because it's noisy! And yes - I urge the poster to get some scrap steel and get practicing - it's the only way to learn.

Hi

You should ask on the mig welding forum for the latest advice for a suitable mig for a newbee morris minor welder.

Once you have your mig welder then get some scrap doors, wings etc from a breakers yard and some new steel offcuts from a sheet metal firm and practice LOTS before you go anywhere near your car. A couple of hours practice and you should be ok with basic welding.

If you test your first welds that look fine by walloping with a hammer its amazing when the joint just falls apart as thers no strength or weld penetration but youll soon learn when you have a good weld. You can then do your first structural repairs.

Really the best way is to get on a restoration course even if this means travelling a bit as you will then get some proper instruction and advice on types of seams etc. This will save you lots of heartache when you realise that your first welding attempts are absolute pants and need to be redone!!

Good luck with your restoration

Taupe

taupe wrote: If you test your first welds that look fine by walloping with a hammer its amazing when the joint just falls apart as thers no strength or weld penetration but youll soon learn when you have a good weld. You can then do your first structural repairs.

another good test is to listen whilst grindong. you will soon hear if a panel is loose when the 'tone' changes

thanks for all the advice!
this afternoon I've been attempting to weld with the old arc welder and it went really well! it sometimes took a while to strike an arc but once i got going it went well.

thanks
yeah i know about mig welders are needed for cars. but i'd rather get some practice on the old arc welder before buying anything.

If you've never MIG-welded before then I'd hazard a guess that it will take you at least 6 months to learn to do a passable (safe) weld at home on your own unless you get instruction. Ideally you need to buy about 160 amps of gas MIG (£500?) and rent an argoshield gas bottle (£150 for the first year?) but you could get away with paying half that if you do it on the cheap.
An arc welder is fine for welding girders to make a trailer but not much cop for car bodywork.
Comparing ARC, MIG and TIG is like comparing throwing a bucket of paint, rollering paint and spraying paint.

ahh okay thanks for the advice. ive just been to one welding class already and its going great. im aware of the costs of buying all the equipment for mig, but im prepared to do it, thank for all your opinions though

Go onto the mig welding forum you will get loads of info on there, but you dont need a massive mig for car panels. Unless you are intending to weld Thicker materials later on a mig that will go down to low amps is what you need. Take a look at the Clarke migs from machine mart, you can get a mig to suit your needs for around £200 - £250. If you have a dual (gas / gasless) you will have the option to change but gas is best. I have used all makes of migs as i used to weld parts for the armys quick bridges, but for a budget machine the clarke are quite good you wont go far wrong with one of those. Mig is a lot easier than arc just practice on scrap. On the mig welding site there is a section that tells you where to get rent free gas, its not available in all areas but you may be lucky otherwise its a yearly rent or using co2 from a pub, argon mix is better if you can get it.
Good luck
Mark

yeah ive been looking at some migs in machine mart. some with some really good reviews from people using them on cars, thanks for all your help, starting to get a much better idea of everything now!

Gurzle wrote:Hi folks! Noob here.

This is a good site for learning how to migweld:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk

All you need to know. There's a forum too, for any questions you might have.

Arc welders are good for building ships and bridges. Cars need a MIG welder.

X2. Everything you need to know on there. I bought my new Portamig through the site (weldequip) and it is absolutely superb. Having a good MIG set makes all the difference!

I bought a 135A Clarke MIG from Machine Mart just over a year ago.

Started by sticking bits of scrap together and soon got the hang of it. The small gas bottles are expensive, but after fabricating a new bumper for my Land Rover, numerous other repairs to the above, doing some welding for work, and attaching an exhaust repair to my (soon to be ex) daily driver Lupo, I'm still on the first bottle!

The above exercise looks like a good idea - might give it a go myself! The hardest thing about MIGging is setting up the welder for the thickness of metal you are using. Practice on lots of scrap and measure the material thickness, then write the correct settings on the top of the welder (or on some paper) - then you have no excuse for blowing big holes in your body panels

The best explanation I've ever heard is that it should sound like frying bacon when you're getting a good weld.

Spattery welding (or pigeon c**p) is only ever caused by a poor arc which is due to:
a) a poor earth connection - manifests with blackening around the earth clamp as it tries to weld itself to the work piece.
b) poorly ground back area to be welded.
As long as both connection points are clean - its like using a hot glue gun (but it hurts more when it spits on you.

And finally, don't take arc-eye or welders ear lightly. You only get 2 of both!

thanks!
i was looking at that exact one to start me off, guess i should just bite the bullet and get it now!
thats really helped.thanks alot

Excellent.
It took me ages to bite the bullet and buy one, and now I don't know how I coped without it!
It's worth noting that as well as being on my first gas bottle, I'm also still on the wire spool that came with the welder.
If you're willing to put in the time to learn, you can save your money in the first 3-4hrs of welding you do. A good repair welder will charge around £70/hr and at £250 for the single outlay, it makes no sense to pay someone else to do it for you!

Add to that you can pimp your expertise out to others for a nominal fee...

And if you're really lucky (as I've been), and the people you work with realise you can weld, and if you do it for them, they'll even put your consumables on company expenses = free spare wire spool and gas bottle.

I agree with the above that Argoshield is much better than CO2, if a touch more expensive.

Oh NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

Check this video to learn how NOT to cut steel with an angle grinder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWrDCC8N4u4

Note the grinder jumping about at the 40-second mark!

The idiot has no gloves, and the way he's straddling the workpiece?????? If that grinder jumps towards him, it's heading straight for you know where!

Also, he's holding the grinder at completely the wrong angle.

This video is dangerous!

thats whats driving me to buy a mig!
i cant understand how anyone would want to pay that much money for someone to weld for them! when for the same amount of money, you can buy a welder and start learning for yourself!

taupe wrote:Hi

You should ask on the mig welding forum for the latest advice for a suitable mig for a newbee morris minor welder.

Once you have your mig welder then get some scrap doors, wings etc from a breakers yard and some new steel offcuts from a sheet metal firm and practice LOTS before you go anywhere near your car. A couple of hours practice and you should be ok with basic welding.

If you test your first welds that look fine by walloping with a hammer its amazing when the joint just falls apart as thers no strength or weld penetration but youll soon learn when you have a good weld. You can then do your first structural repairs.

Really the best way is to get on a restoration course even if this means travelling a bit as you will then get some proper instruction and advice on types of seams etc. This will save you lots of heartache when you realise that your first welding attempts are absolute pants and need to be redone!!

Good luck with your restoration

Taupe

GREAT advice from Taupe. Saved me typing the same out. Especially the restoration course advice.