Morris Minor Owners Club

Saw this over on Retro Rides, and thought I'd better spread the news.
http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.c ... ead=102545

Over reaction. None of that will effect anyone here. If you have an historically important vehicle. Such as a vehicle owned by enzo, or Mr rolls. Then yes you'll have reason to moan. But if anything its easier for us to modify minors than ever now we dont need the paperwork.

Any notion otherwise is pure scarmongering, I dislike the eu as much as the next man, but this simply won't happen. Same as the idea of mot exemption for cars pre 63 or mots every two years, it'l never come to fruition.

I've read the original document and all it says is restore the historic vehicle to original spec using as close to original type materials and techniques where possible. That is what most folks do when restoring their classics anyway- cut out the rust and replace with steel of similar gauge, using spot and mig (and possibly gas) welding as per original construction- perhaps using plug welds where spot welds are not possible. It is what we do anyway!

I don't see a problem with that!

Hello John,

there is a similar, albeit longer post in the Scimitar owners club forum. There is a proposal that swopping engines for example is to stopped and that Austria already has that law. I trust that The FBHVC will strongly oppose these measures but I don't think we should be too complacent as this Euro monster gathers momentum.

The other thing, however, is the often overlooked point when legislation is proposed as to how it will be policed? MOT station, for example could be used but the staff will not have the knowledge to know what is original and what is a modification, it's just beyond the scope of any individual and to compile the data would also be very impractical?


Alec

Denmark have modified Historic . I know a Lotus that has a Ford cosworth engine on their log book it has 1960 modified to 1984 and is tested to the 1984 rules

Hello Faversham99,

"Denmark have modified Historic . I know a Lotus that has a Ford cosworth engine on their log book it has 1960 modified to 1984 and is tested to the 1984 rules"

That is not a benefit, in my opinion. I don't know the car or engine you quote, but many classics have modern engines fitted but the rest of the car would not comply with modern regulations so further modifications would be necessary. Lighting and airbags are a couple of items that spring to mind?

Alec

It's quite simple really, clearly the EU government have it in for car modifiers, I think this is more targeted to modern "chav" modifiers, such as seen on the "Chop Shop" TV series. But they have decided to persecute classic modifiers as well.

Keep your classic close to standard and all will be fine, if you want it to go faster, just do some tuning to the A series engine, or fit a larger A series than the car currently has.

Well the problem is that the EU intends to adopt the FIVA definition of a historic vehicle, and that differs from the DVLA 8 points system such that a different set of wheels gets counted as a deviation as do brakes, and any more than 2 deviations disqualify a vehicle from being being classed as historic.So even minor (sorry) changes such as a set of van wheels and disc brakes (or wolseley drums ) on an otherwise standard car could disqualify the vehicle. The problem is that in the UK there is then no taxation class that the vehicle can go into, and the only other course of action is to radically modify the vehcle such that it needs a BIVA test. This obviously removes historic status and will likely require that the vehicle is issued with a Q plate. You also wouldn't be able to call the car a Morris Minor anymore, as the car would be seen as a new build and the name is a BMW trademark.
As for putting the car back to original spec, there are two pitfalls:-
1) If you replace your non-original components with standard ones, unless the parts are the ones the car left the factory with, then you cannot claim them as points towards the DVLA 8 points criteria, this even applies to replacement items such as springs, even though they are a standard spec replacement for a worn component.
2) The FIVA and FBHVC are not on the side of the daily-driven classic owner. In the FIVA definitions there is mention of a low annual mileage, and the FBHVC mentions a figure of 1500km as the average annual mileage of a historic vehicle. Now that would probably be about right for most Blower Bentley owners, and the like, but I wouldnt say it's an accurate reflection of the mileage covered by 'prole' classics.

I'm not trying to scaremonger here, I merely wanted to point out that there is a style of thinking amoung our political masters that could affect us all. Also the FBHVC does not seem to support the regular use of older cars, unless you have a title and an old car that only titled people can afford.
For more info and updates go to http://www.the-ace.org.uk/

Hello John,

The average annual mileage the FBHVC obtained was from a census of members who submitted their actual mileage. I don't know the membership of the FBHVC but I suspect it is not very high although if you count the membership of the clubs who are affiliated to it, that would be a much larger figure and would give a far better representation of average mileage. I also seem to remember that the census include cars owned which may well not be on the road, (I unfortunately have three at the moment) so this too diminishes the average milage so giving a distorted result.

Alec

Urgh. More regulation = bad, is where I start from. I don't in the slightest get why this is in any way necessary - seems like a solution in search of a problem!

As a previous poster has said, the document seems to have much more relevance to owners of genuinely rare vehicles of enormous individual historical value, rather than your ordinary Mini/Minor/MGB, etc. It reads almost like a conservation policy for a stately home or listed building, whereas most of us are simply interested in keeping our cars well maintained and on the road. It is dissapointing to see an emphasis on this part of the classic car scene, rather than the presumably much larger part devoted to more popular classics. The 1,500km figure FIVA have come up with (to my mind) reflects this too.

Personally I am not into extreme modifications, but am not averse to a few improvements here and there. However this document appears to try and give force to FIVAs opinions with regard to modifications, and renovation vs. restoration vs. repair (certainly not a distinction I've ever come across before).

Alec's point above is why it is doubly important to fill out the survey that the FBHVC is doing this summer. I have done about 11,000 miles in my Minor over the past year, so hopefuly that'll bump the average mileage up a bit!