Which type 9 gearbox ??

Post by **mrpickup** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:27 pm

Hi people, Toying with the idea of buying a sierra gearbox and knowing that it has to be a type 9, I just found on ebay, a type 9 with the earlier longer input shaft. I didnt know shaft length varied. Is this probably the box to avoid ??

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:58 am

I thought all type 9 5-speed boxes had the same length input shafts?? Make sure that it has the removable bell-housing (some have not). Then you will need the conversion kit to make it fit a Minor which is about £350 + VAT from the Birmingham Minor centre. Also you will need to play around with the release arm pivot that they supply as it is wrong for a standard gearbox that has the release bearing guide on. (it needs slotting).

Are you planning to use a carbon bearing (standard Minor) or the roller type and matching diaphragm?

If you are using the standard carbon bearing then you will have to remove the release bearing guide from the gearbox and cut it down so that the carbon bearing can move in an arc (same as the Minor system).
If you are doing that then you will need a new gasket and oil seal (about a fiver or so from Ford).

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:14 am

My knowledge in Ford RWD boxes is less than zero - Earlier this week a friend told me that the early type 9 was 4 speed (one of those guys that thinks he knows everything).
Is that correct?

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:53 am

Yes it is.

Unfortunately I spent a while in the scrap-yard mauling a gearbox out of a Sierra to remove the input shaft release bearing sleeve which I later found out had a different diameter mounting flange to the later 5-speed versions.

I looked under the car to make sure that it had the removable bell-housing and that the gearbox body looked the same as mine............ HOWEVER I did not think to look inside the car to check if it had only had 4 gears!

D'oh!!

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:10 am

So Cam ,are you running a 5 spd at the mo? How does it compare with ratios of the 4 spd minor box? e g could it pull a 3.9 diff from a standstill ok?I was thinking about this conversion for mine .

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:08 pm

Racer,

Yes, I am running a 5-speed.

This is the good part about the 5-speed as 4th is the same ratio as the Minor's 4th and 5th is 0.82:1 so if you ran a 5-speed box with a standard 4.22:1 diff then it would give good acceleration through the gears and would cruise in 5th. In fact with the standard diff (4.22), 5th gear would give a 3.46 ratio (overall) which is even lower than the 3.9 but you still have the acceleration in the other gears!

The standard ratios are:

1st = 3.65
2nd = 1.97
3rd = 1.37
4th = 1
5th = 0.82

Post by **custommartin** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:44 pm

Hi All,
I have recently been looking into the subject of Ford gearboxes for my moggie project (see signature) and have found out a bit about them.

The four and five speed 'boxes look similar and there are different lengths of input shaft (four cylinder 1600cc, 2 litre, 2.8 V6 etc.).
I'm not sure which one fits the Moggie.
SO beware!!!!
I believe you can tell if it is a five speed by the extra little casing on the back of the 'box.

The very late five speed boxes (late Sierras and Granadas) are called MT75 these are the ones without a separate bell-housing and although stronger than the type 9, will not fit the Moggie without SERIOUS modification/engineering! These do NOT have the plate on top of the gearbox and the aluminium casing has lots of strengthening ribs.

Both Type 9 and MT75 were also used in the 4x4 Sierras (MT75 in the Cosworth and MY MOG

), with the addition of a transfer 'box bolted on the back.
The 4x4 type 9 can be used but you need parts from a 2wd Sierra to make it work (A bit pointless then really!) .

I hope this helps (Probably not!).

Can I take my anorak off now??

Cheers

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:01 pm

The MT75 was then modified to prduce the transverse box MTX75, still used today in the Focus etc... They share some internal bits but all Ford boxes have a proliferation of different components, therefore don't expect parts from one to be the same as another!

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:39 pm

What clutch is used with the type 9 ? do you need to re-drill the flywheel ?

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:12 pm

The type 9 that fits the Moggy is from the 1.6 Sierra (5-speed obviously!)

You can either use the Moggy clutch cover with a Ford clutch plate OR use a Ford type diaphragm with the Ford plate. All combinations are available from the Brum Minor centre. Of course if you opt for the Ford diaphragm then you need a roller release bearing and you are entering a world of pain!

(see my other post on the subject!!

)

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:25 pm

Has anyone tried this conversion by ,say,making an adaptor plate to fit the box to the engine backplate of the 1098?

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:28 pm

making an adaptor plate

The usual way is to buy the bell-housing that mates the 'box straight to the standard engine backplate.

I'm not sure an adapter plate would work as the Ford bell-housing is too big and the reach to the flywheel from the backplate is more than likely different from the Ford to the A-series, so it would not fit.

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:33 pm

Yeah I realise that ,and as usual it will prob. be cheaper in the long run to get the bellhousing,but is it poss. with an adaptor plt. cos I have got machining facilities .

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:38 pm

You would probably have to smash the body about in the A35 to get the Ford bell-housing to fit. You would also have to make sure that you were spot on (fractions of a mm) with regard to lining the plate up otherwise the clutch would run eccentrically (if you could get it to mate up in the first place!).

You would need to measure everything VERY accurately.

It would be a hell of a lot easier to buy the correctly cast bell-housing. If you were adamant I would say it was not impossible but it's really not worth the hassle.

Oh and you would also need the spigot bush that sits in the centre of the flywheel that takes the end of the gearbox input shaft. (about a tenner or less I think).

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:56 pm

Point taken Cam ! Just that I can sort of for see a cost for the kit ,plus ,oh! i forgot didnt I tell you to get such and such ,and cost escalates! know wot i meen 'arry? Be good to find out the real cost of doing the conversion though !

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:07 pm

know wot i meen 'arry?

I know what 'ya means 'arry!

The costly bits of the 'kit' are the cast bell-housing and the custom prop (which you can't use anyway I doubt).

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:14 pm

Ah the kit has a prop too1 Yeah so this would have to be reco-propped to fit ,or I might be able to just get the b/housing ! hmm gonna think about that! a35 site hasn't got much on the subject.

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:25 pm

You should need exactly the same stuff except the prop.

I got a custom prop made for mine by a place in Coventry for about £50 (Sierra 'box to Escort rear axle with Minor spacing!).

How is your clutch actuated?? Mechanical linkage, hydraulic or cable?? or are you converting it to one particular type?

Post by **racer** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:34 pm

The a35 has mechanical links,one end of pivot shaft supported on g/box casing,other end on bush under floor . I've just read with interest the thread about your clutch probs ! Interesting stuff -glad I read it b4 commiting myself

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:38 pm

Right well you can either use the existing linkage or convert to a hydraulic clutch setup.

I've just read with interest the thread about your clutch probs ! Interesting stuff -glad I read it b4 commiting myself

Yeah, bit of a nightmare really. I thought I'd resurrect the thread being as we were sort of talking about it!