Morris Minor Owners Club

Hey guys, requiring a bit of wisdom!
Yesterday I chugged out in Jeremy all fine and dandy, until he started making a rather loud clicking noise whilst accelerating accompanied by my legs being very well warmed.. (An uncommon occurrence!)
I took him back home, popped the bonnet and had a look, the rad was completely empty. After filling him back up and leaving him for a while I tried starting him again, no luck. He was turning over, just not firing up.
This morning I've been out to have another look, topped up the oil and attempted firing up again, and with a little persuasion he finally started running. Chugging. Ticking over really slowly and cutting out if I left him. I adjusted the slow running screw so he'd keep going. After getting out the manual and trawling this forum, the only thing that I've come across that would cause this would be that I may have blown the head gasket whilst running him without water? Any other suggestions?

Two months ago he went in for a carb refurb, had the previous owner's failed attempts at wiring taken out and re-wired properly, the tappets adjusted and a new wiper motor fitted and he was running absolutely fine, so it's obviously my doing..!

Thanks!

Blown the head gasket seems most likely.
Any idea where the waster went?

You could see if bubbles are appearing in the water with the engine running and the rad cap off and/or if there is excessive crankcase pressure by taking the oil filler cap off, engine running.

Is the idle really 'rough' ? Try turning the engine over with the starting handle - ignition off. Do you feel 4 even compressions - or are any of them 'soft'? As above - bubbles in water = gasket.

Rad has a slow leak, noticed it when we took it out to clean up the engine bay. A previous owner has had a go with radweld, but I think it'll be needing another dose. Will eventually get round to buying a new rad though.
No bubbles in the water either - in fact, no movement of water whatsoever.

The idle is supremely rough and can't crank start because it seems the handle I got with the car isn't the right one.

Just checked the spark plugs - two of them are dead. There's the lumpyness!

Please define - "dead"

When removing either of the two back caps whilst running, the engine cuts out completely.

So - when you remove either of the other two caps - nothing happens ?? Could be 'melted plugs' - unlikely but worth checking I suppose - but really do think it is the head gasket. Rad weld complete waste of time except for emergency get-you-home. New rad - or have it recored which may be cheaper.

Exactly, when the other two are removed there's no change.
I've ordered 4 new plugs just in case, if that doesn't help then I suppose I'll be looking at the head gasket - have a new one sat in the boot anyway!
Will have a look into a new rad, can't afford to have the car off the road to have the current one recored.

Swap the plugs around, the back 2 and the front 2, and see what transpires. If it's still the same then it's probably as Roy said; head gasket.

Most Rad places can recore a rad in a day !

As suggested don't try more rad weld as its a temporary fix (sometimes lasts a long time) as putting more in will just clog even more of the waterways in the rad, and if you have time give it a backflush to try and remove as much of it as possible.
If the head gasket has gone dont forget to check that the head is still flat.

Given that you've already proved 2 dead plugs, you now need to know whether the cause is electrical or mechanical. Easy check, with ignition OFF, take out all four plugs. Apart from looking at the plugs, now place your thumb firmly over each plug hole in turn and turn the engine over on the starting handle. You should feel equal pressure in each cylinder. If the pressure is down in the two cylinders that don't work at the moment, then it's a head gasket.

Is it 3 & 4 that don't work? If so I'd lay money that the gasket has blown between the two cylinders.

swapping the plugs as suggested above will prove whether the fault moves (plug related) or stays - mechanical (head gasket) or electrical (plug leads or distributor cap). Have you checked the cap for moisture?

Are the HT leads firmly attached to the distributor cap?

I don't wish to be the bearer of bad news or to cause too much anxiety but running without coolant is only part of the problem here. Did the engine begin to miss before returning home or only the next day? That's important to figuring out what has failed. The "rather loud clicking noise" was probably preignition caused by a smoking hot cylinder head. How long after returning home was cold water poured into the engine?

When an engine gets VERY hot like that it is best to stop and let it cool ... immediately.

I'd be looking for valves stuck in the guides. Before removing the head I would first take off the rocker cover, check the valve clearances, looking for stupidly wide gaps, and have a look at the condition/colour of the valve springs. Any valve that is stuck will be obvious and sometimes, with luck, a stuck valve can be persuaded to move again. If the valve springs show signs of distress from heat they may have lost their tension. If all the valves are moving as they should then a dry/wet compression test would be the next step. Lacking a compression gauge, someone suggested a thumb in the spark plug hole while an assistant cranks the engine, this can be done without help by using the starter solenoid with the left hand while checking for compression with the right thumb. All the spark plugs should first be removed so the engine can turn freely.

If there is no compression on cylinders one and two then the head gasket is the cause to be hoped for with the possibility that preignition has holed the pistons. Damage from the cold water shock is the last but could be the worst outcome.

The new spark plugs arrived this morning (the joys of ESM!)

I'll give your suggestions a go, simmitc - I've bagged the help of someone that knows what they're doing now, so I'll use their thumbs to stick in the cylinders..

I changed both the HT leads and distributor cap when all the mechanical stuff was done on him a few months back - he was running lumpy, the timing was out, fuel mix was completely wrong. Leads are on properly.

fussyoldfart wrote:I don't wish to be the bearer of bad news or to cause too much anxiety but running without coolant is only part of the problem here. Did the engine begin to miss before returning home or only the next day? That's important to figuring out what has failed. The "rather loud clicking noise" was probably preignition caused by a smoking hot cylinder head. How long after returning home was cold water poured into the engine?

The engine had no problems prior to the day it went odd, and only started misfiring after I got home - which would imply I caused the damage within the five minute drive from town to home. I left the car to cool down on it's own, it was only that evening that I went out - torch in hand - and filled the rad back up with water. Before taking a look into the engine I'm going to cross my fingers and try the spark plugs - if that has no effect then I can assume the worst. He'll then be shipped off to a friend's just round the corner - someone who knows what they're doing!

Shoes on and fingers crossed..

The main thin to remember when using the thumb method is to disconnect the coil while you are doing it, a jolt of HT up your arm is an effective Aide-mémoire.

Also reconnect it afterwards .

You should try it yourself, it isn't some secret art that takes years to learn.
Good compression will blow your thumb out of the way, bad compression less so if at all.

tonicaek wrote:The new spark plugs arrived this morning (the joys of ESM!)

.... only started misfiring after I got home - which would imply I caused the damage within the five minute drive from town to home. I left the car to cool down on it's own, it was only that evening that I went out - torch in hand - and filled the rad back up with water. Before taking a look into the engine I'm going to cross my fingers and try the spark plugs - if that has no effect then I can assume the worst. He'll then be shipped off to a friend's just round the corner - someone who knows what they're doing!

Shoes on and fingers crossed..

By now you know if the plugs solved the problem. Whether they did or not, please post a picture of the ends of the four plugs to show us all what happened. Also, don't be afraid to tackle the job yourself, ask your friend to supervise if you're nervous. The way to become good at it is to try, most of us have learned more by experience than by the book.

Darrell

Thanks for the support with this guys - it's all a big learning curve! Unfortunately I've got deadlines looming and haven't had much time to get out and have a look at the car properly, however, did change the spark plugs, all to no avail - still having a lot of trouble firing up and is still running very lumpy.

fussyoldfart wrote: By now you know if the plugs solved the problem. Whether they did or not, please post a picture of the ends of the four plugs to show us all what happened.

Here's what three of the four spark plugs look like (don't know where the 4th went!)

[frame][/frame]

Will do the compression test in the morning - getting a bit worried about the beast now!

tonicaek wrote:Thanks for the support with this guys - it's all a big learning curve! Unfortunately I've got deadlines looming and haven't had much time to get out and have a look at the car properly, however, did change the spark plugs, all to no avail - still having a lot of trouble firing up and is still running very lumpy.

fussyoldfart wrote: By now you know if the plugs solved the problem. Whether they did or not, please post a picture of the ends of the four plugs to show us all what happened.

Here's what three of the four spark plugs look like (don't know where the 4th went!)

[frame][/frame]

Will do the compression test in the morning - getting a bit worried about the beast now!

We can't get a good look at the "Business End" but the top two look like they may have been hot. Sorry this didn't bring a good result, it's time now to begin to take things apart.

BTW - did your wife know you used her cutting board for a backdrop? If I took car parts into my wife's sewing area I'd get my head handed to me