Morris Minor Owners Club

Hi I have a Morris Traveller and now that its getting cold in the mornings my moggy is finding it hard to start early. Will changing from a dynamo to a alternator help? Any other things I can do? In the summer its been fine starting first time!
Thanks Paul

Get a battery from a Diesel car. Big buggah! Lots of cranking amps....and then keep it charged up if left for long periods. About £10 from a scrapyard. Alternator might keep it topped up if you are doing short journeys but not a VAST improvement.

As the weather gets colder you will need to use some choke to start it in the morning.
It isn't an on off switch, try pulling it out and inch and see if that's enough.

Push it back in progressivly for a minute or two after the car has started.

If a battery is old / poorly maintained it will loose a lot of capacity - this is even worse in the cold.

With the engine at idle, an alternator won't produce much output, maybe none at all. Therefore in winter - especially commuting in heavy traffic you use energy from the battery to run lights, wiper, heater, brake lights etc.. A poor battery will flatten very quickly - a good one will last much longer. The dynamo will re-charge the battery when driving at normal speed (although not much if you've got lights and wipers on). Therefore you can get a flat battery - in these cases, people used the starting handle - although that's very out of fashion nowadays!

An alternator produces more energy - and should produce a reasonable output at idle. This alleviates the problem a lot, but if the battery is poor, it will still fail at some point. Alternators have much more fragile electronics and to produce more energy they need more tension on the fanbelt - causing increased occurrence of bottom pulley failure too.

Alternators are not as reliable as Dynamo's so that is a factor to consider - compared with putting the battery charger on the car every so often, I'm happy to stick with a Dynamo! Most people would go for an alternator, and of those some find that that what they really needed was a new battery.

So best advice is to stick with the dynamo and get a better battery. Do you agree with getting a battery off a van?

Big, fat heavy battery with lots of cranking amps. Diesel cars need lots of cranking amps due to their high comp ratios. Think Transit diesel or any car/van with a large engine and you are in the right ballpark. I have a battery off of a forklift truck (Thanks, Carlo) and it has enough oomph to start a tank!

Unless you aren't living in this country the weather hasn't really started to get cold yet.
A Minor in good tune, with a good battery, should start easily down to freezing and beyond.
Has the car had a good service recently?

You really don't need a big battery. You do need a GOOD battery - and you need to make sure nothing is running it down when the car is standing. Tell us more about the reluctant starting - is the starter churning the engine over only slowly - or is it whizzing round nicely - but just not firing up ? Good idea anyway to clean all the connections - at the battery, and the solenoid and the starter - and also clean the earth connection from battery to body of the car.
And no - an alternator won't help with starting...... Unless you have special power consumption needs - a dynamo is fine - but do check the fan belt is nipped up tight.

And no - an alternator won't help with starting......

As far as I can tell, nobody said it would - it will however do a better job of charging the battery (unless either are faulty)

Hello Ray,

"Will changing from a dynamo to a alternator help?"

That response from BMCE was a direct answer to the above from post one, surely that is a clear and logical reply?

Alec

And no - an alternator won't help with starting......

Well, that depends on the driving Paul's doing. If he's doing lots of sitting in traffic in queues idling on cold, wet days then while an alternator won't help with starting it'll do a much better job keeping the battery charged and that will help with starting. My minor would struggle to start 'cos the battery was not getting well charged on the way back (or more accurately, it'd be nicely charged when I got off the motorway but by the time I got to our house after 30 minutes sitting in traffic in the rain/cold/dark with the fan/lights on it'd no longer be well charged).

If he's doing a nice reasonable run without lots of idling and the dynamo isn't coping then the dynamo's probably not well, or the battery's not well. One or other.

An alternator is a useful improvement, especially if you're driving with lights, heater, windscreen wipers going and perhaps a radio. Many people are fitting heated front/rear windscreens when doing restorations, A dynamo simply couldn't cope with these extras.

Ray always likes to 'snipe' at my replies! Indeed - I was simply answering the original question.

I was simply answering the original question

the answer 'yes or no' was the issue - it's not nearly as simple as a yes or no. Hence nobody else saying yes or no...
I guess I could have worded it better as I'm not sure a simple rolling eyes smilie would have done it either ;-)


Sniping? If the advice/comments on the forum is dangerous, unjustified or just misleading, people will usually counter the comments.
That's what makes it such a good forum - on many other car forums, random / blind guesses / wrong info are easy to get - and others, just no info at all.

More details on my Traveller not starting. Today I went to start it at 10.00 it was raining and a little bit nippy but no way winter temperatures yet. Choke was out and I pumped the accelerator a couple of times, it gave a good attempt at starting but it just wouldn't take! I tried again this time it sounded sluggy and gave up after a couple of turns. It sounded as if the battery was drained but that cant be surly as after the last time it wouldn't start I connected it to a charger and it was already fully charged. Its as if it doesn't like early cold damp mornings!

that is the main symptom of a failing battery...
however - it's not the only possible explanation.
A high load discharge tester should tell the state of the battery after it's been charged.
One other possible explanation is a dodgy starter motor
Another explanation is a high resistance connection in the circuit.
Yet another - is that there is a current drain so the battery is discharged while the car is standing.

Hello Ted,

it does sound as though the charging and the condition of the battery need looking at. However, a basic check of plugs\points etc, i.e tune up also sounds worth doing. A good engine starts very readily, so even a below par battery will do the trick. If the engine is not so healthy a good battery may get it going eventually?
By the way pumping the throttle does nothing for an S.U. engined car.

Alec

Ray - as you well know - my advice is rarely faulty/unsafe etc. although I know you often dis-agree with it. As for your suggestion in another recent thread that a Spitfire engine and box will fit a Minor with a simple change of front plate - well...........
Anyway - back on topic - the engine should have fired at the first attempt - so a good check round at wiring/connections/points/HT leads and spark plugs won't go amiss. However - the battery should certainly have had enough oomph to try a second time without 'slowing down'. So - my guess is that it's past it's best as you say you have had it on charge - it must have been as good as it could be - assuming as before nothing is draining current while standing.

The battery shouldn't poop out after one try at starting.
It sounds like it has hit the line where it can just turn the engine over but has nothing left to supply sparks to make it start.
As we are about to reach October it's time to replace it as thing will only go downhill from here.
Lash out and buy a new one, and if the car hasn't been serviced for a while, take advantage of any dry weather and change the plugs and points and check the tappets.

You won't regret it when the weather actually gets cold, but you don't get stressed wondering if it's going to start or not.

Ray - as you well know - my advice is rarely faulty/unsafe etc. although I know you often dis-agree with it. As for your suggestion in another recent thread that a Spitfire engine and box will fit a Minor with a simple change of front plate - well...........

Spitfire - Spridget... it was a genuine mistake of eyes seeing one word and brain registering a different one... for which I freely admited ;-) albeit slightly embarrassed - but was glad that wrong advice wasn't left to stand.

as for faulty advice anyone/everyone (especially including me) can get it wrong once in a while, despite the best intentions and other users will offer counter advice. Seeing this as personal or sniping is probably more in the eyes of the receiver than the intentions of the poster.

anyway - will be interested to see the outcome of this flat battery problem - without charging the battery and getting a high load test to check it really is faulty, changing the battery is a bit of a guess.