Morris Minor Owners Club

This is probably a real newbie question, but I'll ask anyway and risk making a fool of myself.

Is there an easy and sure-fire method of determining whether the fluid that is leaking from the area of a rear brake drum is oil from the rear axle or brake fluid? By the time the fluid has been mixed with the general muck and brake dust it is black, so colour is no help.

Have fun,

Mikey.

Try to work out where the oil is coming from. Is the area around the half shaft seal and gaskets damp??

Clean the area thoroughly with brake cleaner/ panel wipe, put it all back together, drive the car for a while and see if you can see where the leak is.

Rear axle oil (EP90) is quite strong smelling so this might also be a clue.

Don't ever worry about asking questions, everyone starts somewhere. If you don't know something, then the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask!

Check the fluid level in the master cylinder (below driver's heel). If it;s going down then it's brake fluid. It's also usually possible to see muck on the slave cylinder. No muck suggests axle leak.

Take the drum off and LOOK. If the cylinder is leaking - it will be very obvious. Best to NOT drive the car again until it's fixed. New cylinder AND new shoes required - may as well do both sides. It's very unlikely to be the axle that is leaking - unless it has recently been (over) filled?

Thanks for the replies.

I thought it would be more likely to be the cylinders rather than the rear axle but thought that there may be some sneaky tips about how to be absolutely sure, like the one about the strong smell of axle oil. Looks like I need to replace the cylinders and pads.

Have fun,

Mikey.

No pads - just shoes!!

Thanks for the correction, bmcecosse, of course I meant shoes not pads.

I checked the brake fluid level at the weekend and did notice it was a little bit low. Last night I removed each wheel and investigated carefully. There is fluid inside both the rear drums, but the fluid is mostly on the mating surface between the hub and the drum and the break shoes were dry. The clincher was the smell - I suspect the axle seals have gone.

To keep the post simple, I didn't mention that Constance is pulling to the left under breaking. Investigating the front off-side I've again found fluid in the drums, but this time the cylinders and the shoes are wet. This explains where the brake fluid is going. Also checked the near-side and, although this is dry, I did see one single drop hanging off one of the cylinders.

So it looks like I need to replace the brake cylinders and shoes on the front, and the rear axle seals on the back. How difficult are these jobs? I'm assuming the brakes are fairly straightforward, I must have done it in before, many years ago (Constance was off the road for 12 years). Do I require any special equipment? Does anybody have any tips, tricks or gotchas that they would like to share?

Have fun,

Mikey.

You can get a rear axle seal kit from the usual suppliers (BM/ ESM etc etc). This comprises of a gasket, rubber seal and an o ring. The best instructions are in the club's technical manual, available on CD or book form, from the club regailia.

As for replacing the brake cylinders, I'd advise adding a 7/16" (or 11mm they are the same) brake spanner to your tool kit, makes undoing those unions and bleed nipples much easier.

Unusual for the axle seals to fail - check the bearings are ok. But it's a straightforward job - and all in the workshop manual - if you have one ? You can fit new seals to the wheel cylinders - or fit new - and since the shoes are contaminated they MUST be changed. Do you have the early 7" front drums - or the later (and better!) 8" drums ? Same cylinders etc - just bigger shoes.

What, no mention of Wolsely brakes???

I pretty sure I've got the 7" drums - bought the parts now so I really hope so. My car is a 1960 2-door saloon, originally 948cc but upgraded to 1098cc a couple of years ago. The brake drums have never been changed (as far as I am aware).

Have fun,

Mikey.

The later 8" drums are very much better - and as 'suggested ' above - the even larger 9" front brakes from the Wolseley 1500 are an excellent and affordable upgrade - but your 7" drums will be fine for normal motoring.

Budget time and money for replacing brake pipes while you are doing the cylinders.
If you manage to get steel pipes off without the ends twisting off AND be able to refit them, buy a lottery ticket straight away, because your luck is in.
Copper, preferably Cunifer pipes are well worth fitting but don't go bonkers tightening them up or the ends will mushroom out and posterity will curse you .
The kits from the usual suspects are good value if you value your time.