Page 1 of 3
timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:25 am
by ampwhu
morning gents,
i am currently overhauling a 948 engine and am having trouble getting the timing cover off. the engine is sitting on a workbench and the head has been removed. i've knocked back the locking tab and tried undoing the starter nut. the flywheel and rear plate are removed as well. i've not got any flywheel bolts and am at a full stop as to moving the nut/timing cover.
anyone help please?
thanks
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:47 am
by alex_holden
Take the sump off and insert a block of wood to stop the crankshaft turning, put a ring spanner on the pulley nut, and wallop it with a big mallet.
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:49 am
by MarkyB
Tricky one, you could stuff rope into two of the cylinders one and four say, then put the head back on, no gasket needed and doesn't need to be torqued down.
This should jam things up enough so the crank wont turn.
Suggest you lay the engine on its side as the pulley bolt is
tight.
Use a socket or spanner the fits properly and have at it.
Scaffold poles and club hammers may need to be brought into play
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:39 pm
by bmcecosse
And in future -best loosened when the engine is in the car - spanner on the bolt head and press the starter!
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:06 pm
by ampwhu
bmcecosse wrote:And in future -best loosened when the engine is in the car - spanner on the bolt head and press the starter!
does that apply when you aquire the engine whilst not attached to the vehicle?
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:07 am
by bmcecosse
Absolutely - fit engine to car - loosen bolt with starter - remove engine!
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:43 am
by linearaudio
alex_holden wrote:Take the sump off and insert a block of wood to stop the crankshaft turning, put a ring spanner on the pulley nut, and wallop it with a big mallet.
As a
slight refinement to this, use a long piece of 3x2 to jam the crank at the timing cover end, and also to use as a lever. Then use a 3/4" drive 1 1/4" socket as the other part of the lever on the crank nut, possibly with an extension on the handle to increase leverage against the lump of timber. (Needs a 3/4 drive socket for the depth to clear the starter dog).
But most people would start Moggy ownership by buying the car first, not the engine 
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:02 pm
by ampwhu
linearaudio wrote:alex_holden wrote:Take the sump off and insert a block of wood to stop the crankshaft turning, put a ring spanner on the pulley nut, and wallop it with a big mallet.
As a
slight refinement to this, use a long piece of 3x2 to jam the crank at the timing cover end, and also to use as a lever. Then use a 3/4" drive 1 1/4" socket as the other part of the lever on the crank nut, possibly with an extension on the handle to increase leverage against the lump of timber. (Needs a 3/4 drive socket for the depth to clear the starter dog).
But most people would start Moggy ownership by buying the car first, not the engine
but i didn't say i had started moggy ownership though..........
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:32 pm
by linearaudio
One piece at a time!..........
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:30 pm
by bmcecosse
My favourite Cash song!
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:37 pm
by IslipMinor
Do you know anyone with a impact gun? A 1/2" pneumatic gun with a 1 5/16" AF deep socket will undo the nut in a few seconds!!
If you can get the block to near Oxford next weekend, I will very happily have a go for you with the above!!
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:11 pm
by ampwhu
IslipMinor wrote:Do you know anyone with a impact gun? A 1/2" pneumatic gun with a 1 5/16" AF deep socket will undo the nut in a few seconds!!
If you can get the block to near Oxford next weekend, I will very happily have a go for you with the above!!
thanks for the offer, but i'll have to try another way.
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:10 am
by IslipMinor
ampwhu,
Updated offer!! Where are you? My travel plans have been delayed a few hours this morning, so I could undo the nut this morning before 9.30am.
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:16 am
by alex_holden
ampwhu wrote:thanks for the offer, but i'll have to try another way.
Have you tried any of the suggested methods? What happened?
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:43 pm
by ampwhu
yes! what i did was order some flywheel bolts from ESM. i then got a steel bar and drilled 2 holes in it, that matched up with 2 threads. bolted the bar to the crank and hit the nut with the spanner on it once...... very hard. it came undone! i then levered off the pulley wheel easy enough. what i found behind, is where i need advice.
in the bottom of the timing cover looks like a seal of some kind. it isn't plastic, so what was it as it's in a terrible state? also there is about 10cm of play in the chain. is that right? i will be fitting a duplex as i've seen one fitted before and it's alot quieter. i know you have to use brake drum screws as well.
i am re-gasketing the whole engine whilst its on the bench. most of it seems straight forward practice. when it comes to the sump gasket at either end, is there a solution as the cork seems very brittle??? also is it worth fitting a new oil pump?
summary....
1. chain play
2. cork gaskets
3. oil pump
i will also be fitting new threads for the thermo housing and fitting a new water pump, oil switch and core plugs.
just one final thing....... i want to fit a temp switch, but there's no-where for it. should i drill a whole through the block and where, or drill a hole into the head and where?
thanks for the advice gents.
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:49 pm
by bmcecosse
No idea about your 'seal' - post up a picture! For duplex - you need better than 'brake drum screws' - you can't get them tight enough. Proper countersunk Allen head screws - 1/4" UNF are required. However - a duplex chain on a standard 948 is WAY overkill! And NO - don't drill holes in anything fit a temp gauge! Get a thermostat cover with tapped temp sensor hole already in it...... New oil pump is a very good idea- but are you renewing the crank and it's bearing shells ? the Bull Motif exchange crank is an absolute bargain..........
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:17 pm
by linearaudio
10 cm play in the chain! Thats nearly 4 inches!!! Anything would rattle less than that!
Why oh Why did you pay for flywheel bolts and carraige when a lump of 3x2 would have done admirably!
Is your curious seal one of the old felt-in-a-steel-shell jobs, maybe? The standard type should fit straight in.
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:45 pm
by ampwhu
linearaudio wrote:10 cm play in the chain! Thats nearly 4 inches!!! Anything would rattle less than that!
Why oh Why did you pay for flywheel bolts and carraige when a lump of 3x2 would have done admirably!
Is your curious seal one of the old felt-in-a-steel-shell jobs, maybe? The standard type should fit straight in.
yes, there is certainly some play in the chain. i'm not too worried about £3.50 for the bolts. around here your lucky to get a pint for that. i think that it could be made of felt. i presume the new ones are rubber and a better fit??? this was the block upon removal of the head.
this was the head
the bottom end doesn't need any work so best left alone. the head......... you tell me.......
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:52 pm
by ampwhu
bmcecosse wrote:No idea about your 'seal' - post up a picture! For duplex - you need better than 'brake drum screws' - you can't get them tight enough. Proper countersunk Allen head screws - 1/4" UNF are required. However - a duplex chain on a standard 948 is WAY overkill! And NO - don't drill holes in anything fit a temp gauge! Get a thermostat cover with tapped temp sensor hole already in it...... New oil pump is a very good idea- but are you renewing the crank and it's bearing shells ? the Bull Motif exchange crank is an absolute bargain..........
i'm certainly no expert, but a duplex is a 'fit and forget'. it doesn't need any bubber bands and is much more quieter. i think its good practice.
the bearing shells? is that worth the effort? i will be flipping it over and removing the sump at some point to fit new gaskets.... so i suppose you could be right. but if there's no play in the bores, i'm tempted to leave alone
Re: timing chain cover removal.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:52 pm
by ampwhu
bmcecosse wrote:No idea about your 'seal' - post up a picture! For duplex - you need better than 'brake drum screws' - you can't get them tight enough. Proper countersunk Allen head screws - 1/4" UNF are required. However - a duplex chain on a standard 948 is WAY overkill! And NO - don't drill holes in anything fit a temp gauge! Get a thermostat cover with tapped temp sensor hole already in it...... New oil pump is a very good idea- but are you renewing the crank and it's bearing shells ? the Bull Motif exchange crank is an absolute bargain..........
i'm certainly no expert, but a duplex is a 'fit and forget'. it doesn't need any rubber bands and is much more quieter. i think its good practice.
the bearing shells? is that worth the effort? i will be flipping it over and removing the sump at some point to fit new gaskets.... so i suppose you could be right. but if there's no play in the bores, i'm tempted to leave alone