TRAFFICATOR / SEMAPHORE LIGHTS TROUBLE

[Flower]

Hello All~!

I am Flower, a new member living in Los Angeles, with desperate need of advice.
I hope someone could please help me!

I purchased a fantastic blue 1958 LHD Morris Minor 1000 convertible in pretty good shape only two weeks ago and know nothing about it, but I'm starting to get all kinds of parts and restoration books to learn. This will be my second restoration project, the first one was a 1957 BMW Isetta 4 wheel LHD Bubblecar which took me 2 years, so I'm passionate about my old cars.

I was told that because trafficator lights were not allowed in America in those days, cars came with blanks on each side.

I just got a pair of vinatge Lucas trafficators Model SF80. I think that I need the corresponding MOUNTING BRACKETS, color coded wire, main current wire, ground wire, the switch...AND I don't know if I also need a fuse box, a relay and/or flasher or any other stuff, apart from a diagram of how to connect them!

I was wondering if you could PLEASE be kind to help me with advice where I could get the correct stuff I need to make them work...I can't find anyone around here that knows about them or can help me...

Also, I'd love to get the parcel shelf & cross bar and air & oil filters. Any suggestions, please?

Your help will be so appreciated!
Kind regards,
FLOWER.[frame][/frame]

[brian]

Hi Flower,lovely looking car,hope someone comes on soon to help you,.Bullmotif is a good place to get spares ,so is ESM,there are lots of tips and hints in the tech tips and on the message boards ,it helps to read through a lot of old stuff that has appeared on these forums,By the way down here in cornwall where I live,when we greet a women we often say," Hello my Flower ",. Keep up the restoration work,cheers,Brian

[mike.perry]

[frame][/frame]
This wiring diagram shows how to wire up your indicators and trafficators using one switch. The contact address for wiring is on there. There are other companies.

[autolycus]

Mike's reply shows the layout for a car with later rear indicators. Does yours have the sort where the brake lights flash to act as indicators? Do you still want to retain flashers as well as semaphores? If so, the wiring changes are a little more involved but not too difficult.

Kevin

[mike.perry]

The relay problem had occured to me, I thought that I would wait and see. I await your solution

[Flower]

Thank you so much for the warm welcome, Brian! I appreciate the tip about those online stores. I'm hitting all the the Morris Minor books I can to make sure I'm ordering the right parts...Regading the way you guys greet women in Cornwall, sounds fantastic! Quite differently here in Los angeles...

I'm anxious to get started on this car, I saw the picture of a black convertible with a dark camel color top in a car show somewhere in the UK that looked gorgeous! Now I see that yours is like that, quite a beautiful car! Congrats!

[Flower]

Dear Mike and Kevin,

Thank you so very much for posting the wiring diagram, Mike!
You are amzing and I appreciate the fact that you helped me so fast!

I'm wondering what I'm getting into, just because I want to have those cool little lights working in my car...

Anyway, you should know that the moment I saw this car I purchased it on an impulse, knowing absolutely nothing about it, its history or design (Two weeks ago). That was crazy but I don't regret it. It turns many heads in the street and I'm simply in-love with it.

In the last week I have been able to gather a bunch of vintage maintenance and parts books to learn and understand what makes it tick.

Until I saw your diagram, I realized that there are others in different books that address this issue differently, I guess based on the model and year. Then I read Kevin's message (THANK YOU) and I wondered if I have the later or newer rear indicators, so I had to run out and check, but how can I really know if I have no reference because of my lack of knowledge and prior experience of working on these cars? My back break lights also work as indicators...

What is it that you call flashers? Do you mean indicating flasing lights, like the turn signals? Flashers to us here are the hazzard flasing lights...

My obvious choice is to have my regular front and back indicators function normally and simply add the trafficators or semaphores. I imagine (If I'm right) that a switch will make them work independently. It would be fantastic if they could all work together at the same time with only one switch by the steering wheel!

I have seen 3 different wiring diagrams, I guess for different cars, but all of them are for the 1000. One of them even mentioned the export LHD model. One diagram shows 2 relays, another one with no fuse box or relays but an inline fuse with the switch and another one shows them connected directly to the car's system.

Now I'm really confuzzzzzzzzzzed especially for not having with me an auto electrician that is familiar with these cars or someone that could make sesnse of a fairly simple circuit that needs to add those cool lights because of a stubborn woman's wish.

I have decided to purchase the Lucas trafficator switch and the wire. I already have the working lights and their brackets are on their way.

Now all I need to do is go to the car, follow at the wires, compare them to the diagrams...and pray. Unless one of you is willing to take a short vacation to L.A., I'll lookk busy... but I'll probably fry the car just because I want it to "Trafficate".

Any suggestions will be appreciated!
Cheers!
Flower.

[mike.perry]

If you are doing some serious work on the car it is really worth buying a BMC Morris Minor workshop manual.
There are many different wiring diagrams depending on the spec of the car. If your indicators and brake lights operate through the same bulbs then you have the car with the relay system which Kevin can probably explain better than I can.
Another useful book for reference is "Original Morris Minor" available from MMOC Regalia. You might also be interested in a Heritage Certificate which gives the specification of your car and manufacture dates. Website BMIHT.

[Flower]

Thanks for your information, Mike.
I'm restoring certain things on the car myself, based on the manuals as I learn and go along.
Others will go to the experts in other areas, as I learn about it and its history, models, upgrades and such.

For the moment I am doing all I can about regular maintenance and upkeep.

Kevin, If you happen to know which is the specific wiring diagram that I need for the correct installation of my trafficator lights out of a workshop manual, I would appreciate very much if you could please let me know. I'm still in the process of receiving parts, workshop and service books.

The idea to get the car's birth certificate with original tech specs is interesting, thank you Mike. If the archives provide all the information I need about my particular car, it will be worth it and will make it so much easier for me to find the correct diagrams and parts. A couple of years back I got the same for my 1957 BMW Isetta through their archives, which included everything technical, colors and interior, manufacturing date, even export date and port of entrance, and it was provided to me free of charge.

I look forward to your reply, and thank you in advance!
Kind regards,
Flower.

[mike.perry]

The easiest way to wire your trafficators is to use a separate 2 way switch. There is a correct indicator switch for the split screen Minors which fits in a hole in the triangular corner bracing panel. Run a green cable from the ignition fuse, (if you pull the fuse out and the wipers stop working then you have the correct fuse) to the switch. Then run a green/white wire to the right trafficator and a green/red wire to the left trafficator. The trafficators should earth through the mounting screws. If they are working correctly they should flip out and the bulb should light when you select the left or right trafficator. When you become more familiar with the car wiring you can try converting to the wiring shown in the diagram

[Flower]

Thank you so much, Mike! - I'll try what you sugest right away.

I just received the Trafficator lights and also (separately) the mounting brackets by mail from England.
I put them together and they fit like a glove, so I'll be able to install them with no problems.
I already got the Lucas Trafficator switch. The person who sold me the Trafficators also included a diagram.
I'll scan it and post it here.

I got a fabulous reply from the BMIHT regarding a Heritage Certificate and they are currently helping me with the car's information so they can search their archives. Thanks for your support!

I'll post the results in a couple of days after I give it a shot.
Cheers!
Flower.

[Vigil]

Flower,

Most of the parts are not available from dealers for trafficators.
You need the trafficator unit; there is a baffle to keep rain out.
There is a mount for the trafficator. Tourers had a bent one.
Travelers had a flat one.

I am sure there are people who use the diagram above.
I would not - I would wire a trafficator switch on its own circuit,
There is another problem with trafficators. They stay up at speed.
This is not good for the unit. If they are new they may not stay out.
Most that I have had on my Morris vehicles they did above about 35 MPH.
I am in Orange County and restoring a 1960 Tourer while I drive it.
I have pictures I can send you with the parts with numbers if needed.
You can contact me through the web site after my name in the member’s area.
Or Write me if you need more information.- uniquelittlecars AT yahoo.com

There is a meet in the Belmont shore pier parking lot below the brewery.
It happens the first Wednesday of every month at 6pm - free parking.
There is also at meet in Palos Verdes on a Sunday every month.
I do not have the information handy at this time.
Both events are free.

I hope this helps,

Vigil

[RogerRust]

hI,

I have to warn you about a hazzard with semaphores especially the low level ones like yours.

If you indicate and pull in to let your passenger out they tend to snap the semaphore arm off as they get out!!!

To solve this put a relay on the interior light circuit and use the normally closed circuit to go to the semaphore. so when they open the door the arm drops. I'll draw a circuit for it tonight and put it up later.

[mike.perry]

If the trafficators stay out at speed it is because they need adjusting. There is a little bit of movement in the top and bottom securing screws which is normally enough. Mine work perfectly at 60mph. Trafficators work better if they are used regularly which is one reason that I have them on the same switch as the indicators.
If you are having problems getting electrics try The Electrical Parts Company

[Flower]

Thanks Roger, Vigil & Mike!
Thanks for the tip Roger & Mike!
I hope to meet you soon, Vigil!
I stayed away for a while due to a painful knee surgery, but I'm back.
I was able to drive Morris again two days ago.
I've been working on it, changing the floater's little pointy thingy (gas was pouring out), trying to adjust the clutch (I fear that I will soon need a ribbed transmission, as suggested) and I had to replace a faulty battery and a few old hoses.

Morris will be going to his very first car show this Sunday, Oct 17.
He was invited to the Pasadena Design Center Car Classic and we're super-excited...
Lots of elbow grease until then, didn't have time to look into the trafficators this week...
http://www.artcenter.edu/carclassic/

Kevin, Roger & Mike, if you happen to get the chance to suggest a wiring diagram for a convertible with the relay, it would be appreciated!

Should I go for the one you posted here at the beginning Mike or is there a different one suggested by Kevin, and the idea of the relay to avoid breaking them is excellent! I mentioned that situation to some friends and they agreed that was an interesting observation.

I don't have interor lights in my car to use that circuit, it is a 1958 convertible and would like, if possible, to retain the flashers as well as semaphores. My brake ligts also act as indicators in the back and I have the front turn-signals.
My books show too many wiring diagrams and I'm confused about which one to go by.

Question, please: Can the Semaphores in my car be connected to work at the same time as my front and back turn-signals or do they have be connected to work independently through a separate switch?
Please be kind to suggest, I would rather have them work gether, if possible.

Kevin: Do you happen to have a wire diagram for this?

I'll write again soon!
Cheers!
Flower.

[Flower]

Thanks Roger!
Great tip!!!!
Flower.

hI,

I have to warn you about a hazzard with semaphores especially the low level ones like yours.

If you indicate and pull in to let your passenger out they tend to snap the semaphore arm off as they get out!!!

To solve this put a relay on the interior light circuit and use the normally closed circuit to go to the semaphore. so when they open the door the arm drops. I'll draw a circuit for it tonight and put it up later.

[mike.perry]

Does that only work with courtesy light switches?

[nigelr2000]

If you dont have door switches for the interior light it sounds like a good reason to fit them even if you don't wire them to the interior light, I have lost count of the number of lenses untrained passengers have snapped off !!! I will be fitting this mod to my 56 4 door as it will save me several quid a year.

Luckily the misses is well trained and slaps the door post before alighting to make sure the trafficators in, trouble is she has even been known to slap the door post when we have turned right telling me it hasn't returned until I explain she is on the left

[Flower]

Hi Kevin.
Do you happen to have a diagram for this, please?
I'm planing the install this weekend....
Flower

Mike's reply shows the layout for a car with later rear indicators. Does yours have the sort where the brake lights flash to act as indicators? Do you still want to retain flashers as well as semaphores? If so, the wiring changes are a little more involved but not too difficult.

Kevin

[Flower]

Roger, I don't have interior lights in my convertible...
I'm concerned about this issue.
Then, should I then connect the lights to the turn signals or independently?
Where should I place the relay, please?
Flower.

hI,

I have to warn you about a hazzard with semaphores especially the low level ones like yours.

If you indicate and pull in to let your passenger out they tend to snap the semaphore arm off as they get out!!!

To solve this put a relay on the interior light circuit and use the normally closed circuit to go to the semaphore. so when they open the door the arm drops. I'll draw a circuit for it tonight and put it up later.