Morris Minor Owners Club

On doing some routine maintainance today I discovered that the streeing column was loose at the bottom where it slides onto the splines of the steering rack. Could move it up and down on the splines

I removed the bolt that was there (a replacement one I fitted when restoring) and tried a new bolt but don't seem to be able to tighten it enough. The ends of the opening where the bolt slides thru are touching when bolt is tight, so no further tightening possible. Is it possible the splines have worn and a new column is the only answer?

I would doubt that much wear would occur. Is it possible to just replace the clamp or maybe it has the wrong clamp fitted? Maybe you could remove some metal from the touching faces of the clamp to alow for more movement?

There is no "clamp" as such - the splines are an integral part of the column, as is the hole for the bolt - moulded in with he column, all one piece.

Filing down the mating edges is an idea, provided I can get a file in there to do so. Anyone else have an MM or early series II with this type of column and have had the same prob?

I have not had the problem on my Series MM. Are you sure that the bolt plain shank is not too long and that you have enough thread?

Strange? Mine had to be done up pretty tight (I changed the bolt for a high tensile cap screw) but once tightened there is probably 2mm gap in the gap you refer to, its never worked loose.

Is the column far enough down on the splined shaft from the steering rack? The bolt should line up with a groove in this shaft to stop the column coming off and then pinch up. When I replaced my rack I had a similar problem to you, mainly because I couldn't get the column on far enough at first and had to open up the split a bit. I have a spare column that I can take some pictures of to show if you want.

Be SURE you use a high tensile bolt in there - that cap screw is ideal! And make sure the column hasn't cracked/split round the back of the clamp!

No, there is no crack that I can see. I will get a High Tensile Bolt from the hardware and try that. Any idea of the shaft size??? The column seems to be as far down as it can be, only a few mm between the base and the floor.

From memory when I stripped the car for restoration the original bolt was a kind of tapered shank, with a thread only at the end and flatened on one side. Unfortunately, this thread was stripped and could not be re-used and I discarded the part. However, my original 1954 dealer parts manual shows a pretty standard looking bolt. Curious......

From memory 1/4 BSF but don't get a 'set screw' (threaded to the head) aim for as much plain shank as you can get in the base of the column as this will be stronger.

Fitted a 6.0 mm x 25mm bolt (only one I could find which was the right size). It is fully threaded, but this worked out well as it was fractionally too large to slide straight in and I was able to "wind" it in on the thread meaning it is a nice tight fit. Tightened bolt up fully and now have nice firm column. Thanks for the advice.

Bodger!

If it was originally a 1/4" bolt, 6mm isn't "the right size". Was it even a suitable grade? The Moss catalogue shows a 1/4 UNF x 1 3/8" bolt for some cars.

If you've had to screw it into the hole, you've chewed metal away from somewhere. It should slide in, provided the bolt lines up with the groove in the splined shaft. It sounds as though an earlier bodger may have used a cotter - fine for bike cranks and T-type MG kingpins, but not here.

And how does this figure with the fact that the sides of the clamp were touching , but the shaft still loose, with the previous bolt tightened? Are you sure it's properly clamped now, or is it just a bit firmer because this metric screw has temporarily jammed things up?

I think the joint needs separating, the components checking, and the whole lot re-assembling with the exactly correct high-tensile bolt.

Kevin

I agree - this sounds quite dangerous. 6mm is too small - not by much, but it IS too small - and as above - is it a high tensile bolt? Obviously not - since it is a screw!! But it could still be HT of course. This is too critical an area to be bodging.........

Well hardly a "bodge"! The bolt is a high tensile bolt (not a screw), which fits tightly and securely into the hole, snugly against the slot in the splines. It is so tight that it had to be "wound" in, but this only with the fingers - no metal was "clawed" from anywhere. I'm not that stupid! And it bolted up nicely, column is now very firm.

I believe that the shaft was moving despite the clamp being tight as the previous bolt was fractionally too thin.

Here is the bolt I used:



Really don't appreciate being labelled a "bodger". I take my car very seriously and never cut corners. Unfortunately, parts for the Series II/MM are not as easy to find as for later cars, especially here in Australia. That's why I ask for advice here.

I know you do........ That IS a screw BTW - and it is NOT the right part for this job.

i have some used ones
if you give your address i will post one to you

The fastener you've shown would normally be called a set screw. A bolt would have a length of plain shank. A 6mm screw or bolt will be a rattling fit in a 1/4" hole. I wonder what the screw thread was that is "fractionally thinner" than 6mm?.

You may not habitually be a bodger, but this is a bodge, and was an even bigger bodge with the previous "fractionally thinner" fastener you used.

Kevin

Gee funny .....looks like a bolt to me...and it says "bolt" right there on the package...I guess the manufacturers must have got it wrong....

Far from being a "rattling fit" the bolt is tight and secure, and in fact had to be gently wound in by hand. I think I'll trust my own experience on this one.

Yes - i'm afraid the manufacturer HAS got it wrong - that is a 'Set Screw' - not a 'Bolt', and if they get that wrong I do wonder if it really is High Tensile too. What markings are on the head of the screw ? These should give the tensile strength of the item.
You shouldn't take offence David - we are only trying to stop you killing yourself............

David - do you think it was the bolt manufacturer who packaged it up in 5s for hardware shops to sell? I, and the other posters who've offered advice on this one, have used the usual UK terminology, and have spelled out what we mean: a fastener with a length of plain, unthreaded, shank. I'd prefer to see the head markings to know whether it's High Tensile, too. The fact remains that when Mr Issigonis, or just possibly a draughtsman somewhere in the Morris empire, designed this assembly, he specified a device with a plain shank to hold it together. He also specified it to be 1/4" diameter, and designed the holes and groove it went through accordingly.

If a 6mm bolt or set screw will only just fit, it must be catching on some distorted metal, or the components are not correctly aligned. It cannot possibly fit all three parts (two sections of clamp with holes and a grooved shaft) correctly. If you're not convinced, drill a 1/4" hole in a piece of steel, then try a 6mm set screw or bolt in it. It will rattle.

And it's still a mystery what the smaller bolt that you'd used previously could have been, that tightened up enough to close the slot yet still allowed the movement you first described. Presumably you'd trusted your experience on that one, too.

Kevin

autolycus wrote:Presumably you'd trusted your experience on that one, too.

There really is no need for put downs Kevin. I come here for friendly advice. I respect your knowledge but please refrain from being condescending towards other people like me who are here simply to get some help in maintaining their cars. Yes, I probably used the wrong part when originally putting the car back together, and now I am attempting to rectify the situation with the best possible solution.

When I said "experience" I was referring to the fact that I am the one who has been working on the problem, and that I can state what I have seen and felt. The bolt is not "catching" on anything, it is very slightly too large for the hole in base of the column (before it even gets to the groove) but can be wound in by the thread using light finger pressure. A 7/32 drill bit fits in the hole, but not a 1/4". Thus, the bolt is not too small it is very slightly oversize which I would have thought is a good thing.

The bolt used is indeed High Tensile with a rating of 8.8 stamped on the head.

The Moss Brothers catalogue you referred to lists the 1/4" bolt as being applicable from car 448801 (ie: The first Morris 1000). My car is a very early Series II, Car number 201151 which shares all parts except engine and box with the MM. According to Ray Newell's book a new column was fitted to the Morrris 1000, so it is entirely likely that the bolt size changed at the same time. This has been a common thing I have found while restoring this car - many parts relating to my car differ from later cars and as most people on this forum drive 1000/1100 cars their knowledge of the earlier vehicles is sometimes not totally correct.

In any case, thank you to those who offered friendly advice.