paint

[andrew.searston]

quick questions
i am a bit confused
which paint is it they have banned is it 2pack or celly??? and what is the difference between the two??
and finally does anyone know the paint code for black??

[Sidney'61]

Andrew,
Celulose was banned at one point but it seems both celly and 2-pack are easily available now, for painting at home you need to be using celly unless you have the full oxygen fed breathing aparatus that is necessary for using 2-pack.

[andrew.searston]

yep i thought right
thanks sidney
i should have spoken to my dad first but he was at work. as he used to paint cars
see how usefull this message board is instant replys

[chickenjohn]

Andrew,
Celulose was banned at one point but it seems both celly and 2-pack are easily available now, for painting at home you need to be using celly unless you have the full oxygen fed breathing aparatus that is necessary for using 2-pack.

I agree with this- 2-pack is very poisonous and you need to use a clean air supply from an air fed mask fed by a seperate compressor to the one in the paint area, and a spray booth with proper extraction to use 2-pack, you cannot use a carbon filter mask for 2-pack like you can with cellulose:-

read this frightening story from the Migwelding.co.uk site:- http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/show ... hp?t=14051

"2K Safety - Leason learnt
I was doing a small paint job a couple of weeks ago in the shed i've got two extracter fans one large one small so on i went with the job mask on a 3M thought that will do the job and it did for the face. the bad mistake was not understanding the paint as i have always used 2K. It wasnt till i woke up in hospital that i was told that I had to be brought back to life as my lungs had shut down and didnt know that it contains isocyante or something like that so it's celluloss from now on. "

Fortunately that chap survived, but was told he will become an asthmatic, so 2-pack should NEVER be used at home!

In addition, cellulose dries much faster lessening the risk of runs, sags and dust for the amateur sprayer. You do need more layers to get the same paint depth so it is the extra time taken with cellulose that means 2-pack is the favourite of the professional.

[chickenjohn]

I might just add that you should wait till summer before spraying the top coat unless you have access to a heated spray booth.

[andrew.searston]

ill wait till summer before priming and spraying other wise it will blister in the future from moisture.
i have another question
i think my car is painted in 2pack, but lets say i wonted to paint a certain area in celly where can i get the isolater to stop the two paints reacting???

[kennatt]

not 100% sure but don't think celly will react with 2k

[jonathon]

Celly should be okay to apply over 2K, but only if the 2K is not covering the original celly. If it is then you run the risk of sinking or cracking paint, as the celly will re activate the paint and filler beneath it. If you are going to the trouble or isolating the I'd simply bare metal that part and start again.

[chickenjohn]

I agree completely with Jonothan on that.

I have successfully sprayed Cellulose paint over Acrylic 2K (on my 944), but on my project Minor convertible the paint (not applied by me) was cracking in places due to 2-pack being poorly applied over the original cellulose paint. On that car, there were so many layers in places that I decided to laboriously strip every panel (using Nitromors and a scraper, followed by wire brush on grinder, then DA sander) to remove the rest.

On my traveller, I had good results spraying cellulose over the original cellulose- still good years later-, got away with a minimum of prep- so it really depends on a case by case assesment.

Nothing is so disheartening though to have spent many hours carefully prepared, filled, rubbed, primed, and sanded a panel just to have it wrinkle and lift when you apply the top coat!! That happened to me on a good 2nd hand front panel that was coated with an incompatible paint. You could try a small area with the same number of layers of Celly primer and topcoat and see if it sticks.

If in doubt though, strip to bare metal.

[andrew.searston]

thanks for the advice
so the cars where originaly painted in celly.
and also how can you tell if its celly or 2pack?

[bmcecosse]

The dreaded 2 pack has a sort of un-natural 'shine' to it! And often has a clear coat over the top - and is quite 'thick'.

[andrew.searston]

im only guessing its not 2pack since ive tcuted the car and the cloth turned black. so could be celly

[jonathon]

The dreaded 2 pack has a sort of un-natural 'shine' to it! And often has a clear coat over the top - and is quite 'thick'.

Agreed if straight out of the gun. A well finished 2K paint job will be indistinguishable from one in celly. You will seldom see 2K with a clear coat. Up until recently the basecoat was celly (now waterbased) and the clear 2K, (now more than often waterbased)
You will actually probably use less paint, ie have a thinner coat of paint than if using celly due to the high solids of 2K. Most repair shops will use 2 coats , restoration pros maybe 3, but no real need for more.
2K does have poor health issues if used incorrectly, but there is an awful amount of mis informed opinion.

[bmcecosse]

Well - if the cloth turned black - it doesn't have a lacquer coat - so that's something!
2 pack is fine - if you brush it on! And some have said it works v well doing it that way. The problems only arise if you spray it without the correct safety precautions - which for the DIYer are very difficult to arrange properly.

[jonathon]

Could just be a 'solid 2K black BM

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - it probably IS!