I am about to start the rebuild of a pickup and I have decided to take the plunge and go for a full-on twin cam setup, building the mods in from the bare chassis up. Up until now I have run a standard mog with just an alternator upgrade so this degree of modification is new ground for me.
Anyway, I have been offered a Lancia Beta 2Litre twin cam engine in excellent condition (30k on the clock) and I will buy it if someone can reassure me that I'm not letting myself in for a fitting nightmare. By what I read it seems that although the Lancia engines were mounted transversely they can be mated with the Fiat 5-speed box and mounted north/south - is this correct? Also are there any other problems connected with the Lancia engine as opposed to using the Fiat version?
Any advise or pertinant warnings gratefully recieved!
Cheers,
ROB.
I have never used a Lancia engine but know quite a bit about fitting Fiats.
As far as I am aware the normal route when using a Lancia engine was to swop over bits from an inline engine. These included, the oil pick up, sump,and possibly the water pump and exhaust manifold. You could use the Lancia sump but it suffers from surge.
I do know that the inline gearbox will definetly bolt up.
Twin cam engines are becoming rare so if you intend to fit one buy this Lancia engine if it is good. The parts I mention above are a lot easier to get hold of than a good inline engine. I may even have them for sale.
Thanks John, the thing that motivated me to push on with a twin cam setup was the realisation that good engines were getting thin on the ground and that if I wanted to realise my longterm dream I had best wake up and get on with it!
Based on your comments I will go and buy that engine tomorrow, it will be quite some time before I am at the engine fitting stage so theres plenty of time to keep an eye out for a decent gearbox, prop etc.(I hope...)
With regards to any required parts changes please contact me when you can with more details and any bits you may have for sale - cheers.
Rob, came across a site today about an engine rebuild for a lancia twin cam, apparently with some useful info, unfortunately I left it at work. Will look tomorrow and post again,it was in the June issue of Practical Classics.
Guy Croft is worth phoning and talking to about engine choices. I did and his advice was to go for the standard Fiat engine ( 131 / 132 ). The problems and costs of finding all the required parts makes converting from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive is not worth the effort.
Iam sure that there where other reasons why it was not practical but it is a while since I spoke to him. Iam sure if you spoke to him he would supply you with the relevant information.
Thanks all for your responses, I have had time to do some research and it looks like a thumbs up for my Lancia engine, a few bits need to be replaced with items from the Fiat unit - just bolt-on stuff really and its good to go.
The engine itself is identical to the Fiat, once its installed the only noticable difference will be the Lancia stampings on the cambank covers.
Cheers,
ROB.
Have you seen an references on the web to car owners that have converted the Lancia Beta 2Litre twin cam to rear wheel drive. I have looked and have not found anything yet. I would be wary of going down this path as it could turn into an expensive mistake.
It is suppose to be possible to convert a front wheel drive A series engine to rear wheel drive. I don't think you ever will find anyone who has attempted it. Why would you send money on converting a 1275 Metro engine to rear wheel drive when you can buy a 1275 Marina Engine ?
When I spoke to Guy Croft the information I got was that Twin Cam engines from different cars / manufactures have internal bits that are not interchangeable between engines. Because of this some engines have mechanical bits that are near impossible to find or replace. Iam sure Guy Croft mentioned an engine where finding shell bearing was almost impossible.
To complete the conversion to rearwheel drive do you know that can get all require parts that you need. Will you be able to obtain the parts and stay with in a reasonable budget Has any one mentioned that you will need to do modifications to the heads / block in relation to water flow.
I would say that if you can find yourself a rear wheel gearbox that there would be a good chance that there would also be an engine for sale with it. A gearbox being sold on its own will be a lot harder to find that an engine and gearbox.
Hi James,
You are absolutly right with regards to the availability of parts for twin cam engines, especially with Fiats policy of deleting parts only ten years after end of production (talk about having faith in your product!) so I do intend to be sure. I must admit I'm intrigued now as to the technical differences and I suppose thats how we learn.
The main difference between the Fiat 131 engine and the Beta 2ltr is due directly to the mounting position. The Beta has to move water much further from to the radiator and back so it has steel water rails attached to the top of the block and the water pump. These need to be replaced with a union unbolted from the Fiat and a Fiat 2ltr waterpump. I have already sourced these from an experienced Moggie/twincam user if I decide to persue the course.
I have also sourced a good 2ltr 5-speed box and the bellhousing pattern will match as mentioned by John earlier in this thread.
Also mentioned by John was the sump change for which as yet I have no parts lined up, but I do know that the 1600 sump will not fit, only the 20ltr.
Over the next week I will contact the proffessionals (not MI6) like Guy Croft and Shy(DS engineering) for more in-depth advise.
In my search for a good twincam I have found that if for sale either the engine and/or the box is near clapped out and rebuilds come in at around the £1500 mark for engines alone - I dont think anyone gets rid of good ones.
If there are any other points I might need to consider please keep them coming - I cant be the only member going down this road.
Cheers,
ROB.
