Overtaking, is it possible in a Morris Minor?

Post by **Geraldine** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:14 am

Yesterday I was stuck behind a moped, so when I had a really clear stretch of road ahead decided to try and overtake. However I soon realised it was going to take far too long so dropped back.
I suppose we don't have the acceleration to overtake unless we have about a mile of road to do it in!
Do most of you just pull over to let people past?

Post by **alex_holden** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:22 am

As with any vehicle, you have to get a feel for what it can do and what it can't before you can judge whether it's going to be possible to safely execute an overtaking manoeuvre or not. You also have to bear in mind that some drivers will speed up when they realise they are about to be overtaken by 'an old banger'.

In some circumstances (you'll only be able to judge when with experience) it can help to drop down to third gear just before you start to overtake, because you have more power out of the engine at higher revs.

Post by **d_harris** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:36 am

What he said...

The traveller used to be quite good at overtaking as it was really low geared (until I put the 3.9 in) used to be able to take people by suprise quite regularly.

Is yours a 1098? They are a bit gutsier than the earlier lumps

Post by **Dru** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:28 am

Some people seem to see my Trav and perceive it as going slowly because that's what Moggies, in their mindset, do, even when I'm (fairly) bowling along. And then they do silly things to get past me.

As for pulling over to let people get by, I try to drive considerately, and may even slow down a little if it's a long straight bit and I want to let someone get by; but I found I needed to be a bit more assertive than I used to be to drive safely, like when I'm approaching a two-motorway junction and I need to switch to the middle lane while there's loads of other cars going at least ten miles an hour faster than me.

Maybe I'll get a sticker for the back saying "Differently Fast"

Post by **8009STEVE** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:36 am

Maybe I'll get a sticker for the back saying "Differently Fast

There was, about 3 years ago, a Trav in the Leeds area with a sign on the back.

I DON'T DO FAST

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:44 am

See, I never had any great problems overtaking in the mog. Yeah, you definately need to know what it'll do before going and pulling out on a single carriage way, 60 limit... but most of the time I found her nippier than my mum's old 205 (1 litre). Drop a gear and go...

...mind, my 1098 was a very nicely run in one. Nikki's 1098 was like trying to get a slug to motivate itself to climb a mountain, so really it depends

The 1275 makes things easier, but she's no-where near like some of the modern's I've had of late.

Post by **ASL642** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:08 am

I've never had a problem, make sure it's clear, drop a gear (not always necessary) and go. Standard 1098 engine and gearbox/diff.

I do a lot of motorway driving in her (Traveller) getting to rallies.

Post by **andrew.searston** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:16 am

is it easy to over take in a 948cc what diffrence does it make from a 1098cc???????

Post by **d_harris** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:21 am

Its a more powerful engine....

Post by **ASL642** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:47 am

A properly set up 948 should be able to overtake. It may take a little longer so judge your distances well.

Post by **Blaketon** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:04 am

I posted the following on another thread and it is relevant here.

I have to say that as the driver of classic cars (I have no “Modern”) and also a keen cyclist (By cyclist, I don’t mean someone who rides on pavements or at night without lights – these are the equivalent of the uninsured, no MOT, banned motorists), I find certain parallels exist between the two pursuits. I think that these are based on assumptions, made by the non cyclist or non classic driver, based upon their own standards.

For example, “I can only ride a bike at 10mph, so every bike travels at no more than 10mph” or “My cars are all a bit clapped after five years in my ownership, so one that is 40 years old must be on its last legs”. In each case it leads people to assume that the old car or bike is travelling much more slowly than it really is and it leads them into making inappropriate manoeuvres, such as attempting to overtake a cyclist and then turning left into the cyclist or pulling out of a junction in front of you because they assume they have plenty of time.

Of my cars, the Morris Traveller attracts more attention than either of the MGs (Midget and BGT V8 ). It was not something I anticipated when I bought it and so when (After about twenty minutes of ownership) I found an Australian tourist filming it at a motorway service station, I was taken aback. I don’t think it has been filmed since but it does tend to attract attention. The point is however that for every person who admires it, when stationary, there are ten who either can’t wait to overtake it or who appear to resent being overtaken by it.

My Traveller has about 80bhp, so whilst not madly quick (One of my MGs had best part of 100 bhp more!!), it's a lot quicker than many expect it to be. One of the best ways to get past something, which has more straight line speed, is to drop back before a straight (You have to know the road for this) and time it so that you catch the vehicle and are about to pull out just as you hit the straight. If you have say 20 mph in hand, you'll be infront before they know it. Being able to change gear quickly also helps.

There is an argument that says if you can't pass, why pass? This is true but there are some drivers out there, who keep getting in your way but rather than let you pass, keep speeding up, each time you try. Perhaps its an ego thing. I don't think it does these people any harm to be reminded that Morris Minors are not all mobile chicanes (I mean no offense to the side valve or 803 cars but they no doubt would struggle to go with the flow on some faster routes), even if it irritates them

.

If this 50 mph speed limit comes in and technology means it can be enforsed, this whole question could be academic.

Post by **jaekl** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:47 pm

You seem to be missing one of the other great fun things about a Morris. Driving full out and nobody knows it. This aspect requires timing and planning ahead. When you feel stuck behind something, you have to look down the road and look for the spot, fall back a bit, and then accelerate before the spot in the space you created and overtake with minimal time in the other lane. Like I said timing and planning. A great activity and skill builder. You're almost racing yet nobody has a clue.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:19 pm

If anything comes up behind me in ANY of my cars (doesn't happen often!) - I'm only too glad to help them get past - I HATE having anyone behind me, trying to knock the lights off. Had a huge white Beamer go past me last week when running along at XXXmph (on the deserted 'old' A74 road) in my TR7 - it must have been doing about 150 ! But - 'stuck behind a moped' - you are having a laugh - yes ?
Don't sit right up behind another vehicle - hang back - judge the moment - into 3rd gear - and take a run at them, swinging out just as you see the road is clear!

Post by **Blaketon** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:47 pm

If anyone wants to have a bit of fun, in their own car and get some good tips on how to handle it, this could be for you http://www.prescott-hillclimb.com/driversschool.aspx. Sometimes you get to ride in the instructors car and this can be a real eye opener!!

Andy Priaulx (http://www.andypriaulx.com/ap/) did a lot of hillclimbing in his formative years, so the sport has developed some good talent; Stirling Moss also started this way, though they didn't have a driving school in those days.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:07 pm

Mr Blaketon - your 80 bhp engine sounds interesting - care to enlighten us with the details ??

Post by **Geraldine** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:13 pm

No I wasn't having a laugh, the trouble is at the moment that I am coming back to driving after a gap of 12 years without a car, so my skills aren't back to where they should be yet!
I'm sure I used to overtake in my traveller years ago, Geraldine seems a bit slower but I'll have to get more of idea of what she can do speed wise. Overtaking was never my favourite occupation but I don't want to keep annoying people by getting stuck behind things!

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:16 pm

Aye, I suppose I forget, but I naturally do drop back to overtake. I tend to look at the traffic ahead a lot, too. It's all about knowing what's coming up.

I know when I'm tired, because I don't.... (Driving home after night shifts springs to mind).

Post by **Blaketon** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:46 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Mr Blaketon - your 80 bhp engine sounds interesting - care to enlighten us with the details ??

1275 Midget, with Peter Burgess "Econotune" head, LCB/straight through exhaust, 1 3/4 carb and set up by Interpro on rolling road....may have been 78 bhp but near enough 80.

I didn't fit the engine (Fitted the head to go lead free) and I suspect the camshaft maybe non standard, as it is a bit peaky. I intend to look into that and I'd sacrifice some top end for more low end. I'm not convinced the 1 3/4 carb helps (Big carbs can tend to reduce low end), although I know everyone raves about them. I have an unused set of 1 1/4 twin SUs, complete with manifold, which I could try as a comparison.

I don't know what it will do flat out. The speedo seems to tie up with the rev counter and I have seen on the way to 90mph, with the car still accelarating. However with the overtaking manouvre completed, I pulled in and slowed down. I don't imagine I'd get much over 90 - 95, as the Traveller isn't the most aerodynamic of cars. I have disc brakes fitted, so I know I can slow down!!!

One of my favourite little tweaks is the Quaife diff. I have those in the MGs and it makes tight hairpins so much easier. It is also much better in the snow (Not that we get much any more).

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:07 am

Thanks for that - not heard of Burgess - I'm sure the cam must have been changed to get that power. The big single SU is ok for 'torque' - because the rising piston effectively makes it a 'small' carb when that's all the airflow the engine wants. The twin 1 1/4s will be much down on power - try if you want of course. Quaife diff hmmm - expensive! I'm sure your car will do well over 90 if it has 78 (or 80) bhp. Of course - some RRs read much higher than others.....

Post by **alainmoran** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:43 am

In all honesty I just dont bother overtaking, yeah I'm sure I could if I timed it right, but what's the point?

It's not like it's going to make a major difference to the amount of time it takes me to get somewhere, so I just leave a big gap in front of me and the car in front to encourage faster drivers to overtake me and nip into the gap.

Up until 30mph my minor can kinda 'compete' with modern cars, after that it's a lost cause ... but then, is this my bothered face? ... is my d**k a different size because of it? - I think not.