Welding - how easy is it ?

Post by **iandromiskin** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:33 pm

I am hoping to do a welding course in the winter with the eventual aim of learning how to replace all the panels in my Traveller that need replacing. I know it will take a lot of hard work and practice, lots of practice, but how easy will it be ? I was just wondering if anyone here has recently literally picked up a welder (with a course) and fixed up their own cars. How easy did they find it ?

I think I'm more afraid of cutting out too much metal or not knowing which bit goes where, but its all part of my 3 years plan.

Post by **alainmoran** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:32 pm

I was naughty and taught myself without a course ... a welder freind of mine told me that all I really needed to do was spend some time with MY welder and a pile of scrap steel, and that as soon as I had welded two bits together I should then try and separate them.

At the beginning it was fairly easy to get them to come apart with a cold chisel & lump-hammer.

After a while though it ended up with the only way to get them apart would be if one bit had the weld and a chunk of the other piece on it ;)

One tip I would say is that once you think you have the hang of it ... try turning the gas off, so that you can get an idea of what happens when you run out, or if the wind is blowing the gas away too quickly ... it can 'seem' like the weld is going great, but the quality of the hold will be pants.

Still ... I would like to do a course at some point, I'm sure there are lots of things I could learn.

Post by **polo2k** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:49 pm

that all seems spot on advise. one more thing is to make sure your welder is running right before hand. Ive heard plenty of horror stories of people with wire feed problems who are ready to throw in the towel until they find that a liner makes them a million times better at it. Get a competent welder to have a play and then amuse your self with off cuts. im sure a local body shop would have plenty of scrap panel bits they are throwing away.

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:10 pm

Invest in one of those "automatic" welding masks.
All my best welds were just half an inch from where they would have done any good

Post by **ASL642** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:22 pm

They're very good and leave both your hands free for welding.

Post by **rv8** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:43 pm

MarkyB wrote:Invest in one of those "automatic" welding masks.
All my best welds were just half an inch from where they would have done any good

been there

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:03 pm

I hated that bit, Yesss! DOH!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:31 pm

was just wondering if anyone here has recently literally picked up a welder (with a course) and fixed up their own cars. How easy did they find it ?

I did a welding course at college, but gas welding skills doesn't help you with a MIG welder! My first welding was attrocious!
Welding new thick steel is easy - welding mildly rusty stuff is not the same. Welding rusty thin bodywork is HARD! Doing it whilst laying on the ground under a car being covered in sparks and boiling/flaming drips of underseal is not for the faint hearted. However it only takes practise.

Post by **d_harris** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:05 pm

Getting a weld to stick is easy! Getting it to still well is bloomin hard till you get the hang of it.

I've never done any courses etc and I sorted Monty out! (With a bit of help from Matt, who is brilliant with a MIG!) best thing to do is get stuck in anf you will soon learn what works and what doesn't

Post by **Matt** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:17 pm

Basically I would buy a welder and play

Post by **kennatt** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:44 am

mig welding is easy with a bit of practice,I would only go on the course if I wanted to get to industrial standard welding where welds are under extreme loading(Unless its free of course). When I started , After a few years with gas welding,I was told that if I could draw a straight line with a pencil,then I could easily learn to mig weld,The dificult bit is welding upside down on dirty steel.I sometimes still use the gas for that. Get a decent mig,the best you can afford,and have a go you will be suprised how quickly you get good results.

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:40 am

kennatt wrote:I was told that if I could draw a straight line with a pencil,then I could easily learn to mig weld,

Bit of an exaggeration there. I've never burned a hole with a pencil because I didn't draw at the right speed...

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:16 am

Laying a weld with a mig is easy, however welding properly is not, and should not be attempted on structural areas of your car until a good welder (preferably trained) has passed your efforts as being structurally sound. Often beginners welds look 'nice' but have very little penetration and can be easily broken apart.
Knowing how much welding to apply in one go is also a learned skill, ie dont weld 6 inch welds and expect the panel not to buckle or twist.. Its very easy to scrap a car with poor welds which can distort the chassis horrendously just by shrinkage of the weld.
I'd seriously try and attend a short course and learn the basics, technical and practical, self taught is okay so long as you are doing it right, not simply thinking you have, so get your efforts approved.
If in doubt of your ability , just don't do it.

Post by **polo2k** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:32 pm

alex_holden wrote:
kennatt wrote:I was told that if I could draw a straight line with a pencil,then I could easily learn to mig weld,
Bit of an exaggeration there. I've never burned a hole with a pencil because I didn't draw at the right speed...

hehe very well put.

the automatic welding mast is a fantactic bit of kit, I got one last year and have never welded so much!

Post by **d_harris** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:00 pm

Jonno raises a very good point there.....

Post by **paulk** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:47 pm

If doing a welding course try and get a car repair course rather than just a general one.

As previously mentioned welding thin steel upside down is a whole (and hole) different ball game to 6mm plate on a work bench.

getting the hang of the penetration is the main thing. If you can get someone to teach you the basics then the other stuff will come with practise.

As Jon says welding strong is one thing, welding without warping is another important aspect.

Post by **alainmoran** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:43 am

MarkyB wrote:Invest in one of those "automatic" welding masks.
All my best welds were just half an inch from where they would have done any good

Helll yeah, my dad found one of these at a car boot and gave it to me & it revolutionised my welding ... I would also say the same about a pair of welding gloves - they allow you to hold the tip of the welding gun with your hand, which makes for much smoother welding.

Welding upside down is a pig, if you have the space get/build a rollover rig.

The main thing you want to be sure of is to clean the welded area (and at least an inch outside of it) back to bright metal ... if taking it back to bright metal creates holes, you need to be cutting that section out.

Don't be afraid of cutting fairly hefty chunks out of your car, but be very careful to rebuild the same structure back in. Keep the doors closed, or better still brace the openings so that metal doesn't stretch.

The main thing is to practice, practice, practice until you are absolutely sure that your welds are good enough.

I must admit there are some areas of my car which need cutting out and re-doing, the MOT man thinks they are OK, but as I've gotten better and better at welding I'm not keen on the work I've done.

Post by **iandromiskin** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:01 pm

What sort of welder should I buy in terms of output or that is ideally suited for the Moggie ? Any other extras I should consider ?

Post by **alzax3** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:12 pm

It's more what your garage/house supply can cope with - there's no point going for a huge welder that spends it's time blowing your trips........ I've used a Sip 160 amp for years (good welder, but with cheap and nasty wire feed, common problem on 'diy' quality units) - about on the limit before you need to move from 13 to 16 Amp circuits - but for bodywork you don't need that sort of amperage. 100 to 140 should be ample. Avoid the gasless ones, they have all the downsides of stick welding with few of the benifits of Mig.

Tip: have a look at the mig welding forum: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php brilliant place for information on all sorts of metal joining!

Large lump of copper is great to stick behind the steel sheet - you can build up weld on that then pull it away leaving a patch.

Post by **taupe** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:04 pm

Hi alzax3

I havent heard of using a lump of copper to weld against?

How big does it need to be to stop it sticking and what is the technique used??

Regards

Taupe