The MMOC "informal" forum

Post by **frosty** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:20 am

What's happened to the other site forum?
Nothing posted in a couple of days
Is there a Tech problem?

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:32 am

If you mean http://www.morrisowners.co.uk/ then it's not an MMOC forum (that was kind of the point). I think it's dying out - it has a small and dwindling number of regulars and no new people joining because the official forum is where all the activity is.

Post by **Judge** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:36 am

For anyone interested, here is the original introduction to the other site. It was never designed to replace this official board, but only to give Morris Minor owners another forum that they could discuss their interests. I am afraid though that its apparent demise is once again another case of people only getting out what they are prepared to put in.
Welcome guest,
and thanks for popping in.
For those of you who might be interested, just a little about this board and its future.
It was started as a collective project, due in part to technical issues with the official owner’s club board, but also to provide a less formal board for the die hard moggy enthusiast.
It’s also a place where club issues can be discussed and constructive ideas put forward.
Traders are welcome to openly advertise without being in contravention of the rules that are in place on the club board.
Input from all is very welcome. There is no hierarchy here, and any useful suggestions are given serious consideration, and implemented if appropriate.
Although we don’t have rules as such, please keep it clean, and try to avoid politics etc. Any content, links and pictures should be family friendly, and please refrain from making any remarks against individuals or companies which might result in legal action or endanger the existence of this board.
Signing up only takes a minute. You need to confirm by email (to stop spammers), but if you experience any difficulty activating your account just email admin or any of the moderators.
We’re lucky to have some very knowledgeable people on here, so it’s a good place to be for any mechanical or technical issues you may have with your mog.
The less constrictive nature also makes it a good place for daily banter and chat, as well as keeping in touch with your moggy mates.
Please feel free to sign up, the more the merrier.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:40 am

I do post on it/answer queries from time to time - but there is little activity these days.

Post by **LouiseM** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:14 am

It’s also a place where club issues can be discussed and constructive ideas put forward.

To re-iterate what Alex has said, and to avoid further confusion, the 'other' site has no connection to the MMOC. It is not a club site.

Post by **Judge** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:37 am

I would also re-iterate that, and to clarify that the statement highlighted does mean exactly what it says, 'constructive ideas'. It is not a site to negatively criticise the MMOC.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:09 am

Quite a few of the alternative Minor sites are quieter than normal - wait till folk are bored again in the winter. Variety is the spice of life.

Pete

Post by **Judge** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:18 am

Yes, I removed them myself to avoid any misunderstanding.

Post by **LouiseM** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:20 am

Sorry Bill - just amending my post when you posted yours so it doesn't now make sense!

I was saying how it was good to see that the moderators on the site had removed any posts that may be considered critical.

Post by **alainmoran** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:17 am

Starting up another forum while this one is so active is never going to work. If there are problems with the way that the MMOC board is run then they need to be adressed internally.

Deleting posts just because they are critical of the MMOC doesn't sound like healthy behaviour though. If people have issues then they should IMO be free to express them, if their opinions are not valid then it can be pointed out to them why they arent valid.

If however the person does have a valid point then that needs to be accepted by the MMOC and taken on-board, just brushing problems under the carpet by deleting/amending posts you dont agree with is not constructive & will damage the club in the long term.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:35 am

Couldn't agree more, Alain

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:20 pm

If however the person does have a valid point then that needs to be accepted by the MMOC and taken on-board, just brushing problems under the carpet by deleting/amending posts you dont agree with is not constructive & will damage the club in the long term.

Anything discussed and/or deleted on the other forum is 0% the responsibility of the MMOC! Moderating rules there are totally different. Deletion of comments is against their rules anyway (so I'm reliably informed).
If posts have been deleted there, it's certainly not the responsibilty of the MMOC, and you should go to their admin and complain there

If there are problems with the way that the MMOC board is run then they need to be adressed internally.

The MMOC board had a period of going offline due to problems with the server. These problems were dealt with and the server company sorted them out (albeit not as quickly as it was requested).
There are no 'problems' I'm aware of with the way the MMOC forum is run. For legal reasons the board has a set of rules, and the moderators are under instruction to make sure they are followed. If the rules aren't adhered to the board's future would be under threat.
As for making positive suggestions, I've found the club heirarchy to be ready to listen. They didn't always agree with things I've suggested but at least they have listened. Change takes time and it's easy to get impatient. However one major cause of lack of change is that people who want it sometimes change vanish when it comes to following protocol (certainly not all vanish, as some of us will stand up to be counted ;-) )

At the last but one AGM, IIRC, I was the only person who objected to a motion! This year I was involved in raising a motion (regarding the darn scrappage scheme...). The lack of other motions and complete lack of objections indicates that most members are happy enough with everything as it is. Lets face it, the club does do quite a lot - much of which is done by volunteers, helping to keep the fees reasonable. A lot of the activities are supported by branches, and the branches get funding from membership fees etc...
This forum is yet another asset to the club, and funded by the club, but run by volunteers... providing a very useful service to all Minor owners.

Post by **Judge** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:45 pm

rayofleamington wrote: Anything discussed and/or deleted on the other forum is 0% the responsibility of the MMOC! Moderating rules there are totally different. Deletion of comments is against their rules anyway (so I'm reliably informed).
If posts have been deleted there, it's certainly not the responsibilty of the MMOC, and you should go to their admin and complain there

By whom Ray, that's news to me as one of the administrators. In fact they were removed at the request of the posters. As a result, due to the discontinuity, the remaining thread was removed. I can always replace my posts if requested?

But yes, if you have any complaints please addres them to the other site.

PS I think you mean MOC not MMOC.
PPS I think that the poster was in fact referring to the MMOC. Possibly because some of my posts had been removed without an explanation being given.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:43 pm

PS I think you mean MOC not MMOC.

nope - any posts or deletions on the other board are 0% responsibility of the MMOC.
Who are the MOC anyway?

By whom Ray, that's news to me as one of the administrators.

A few weeks back I was discussing moderator etiquette with the board owner when he came on a tour down through the midlands - in a Minor of course ;-).
As an infrequent frequenter of the other board it was interesting to hear how the other half live - especially that deletion wasn't allowed after the time window had expired.

As for the other board - I wish I had time to get on there more, as every time I go on there seems to have been some good trader spares for sale, that I'd missed!

Post by **Judge** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:01 pm

I think that there may be some misunderstanding here, as yes I agree that the MMOC have no jurisdiction over the Morris Owners board.

The original post read,

Starting up another forum while this one is so active is never going to work. If there are problems with the way that the MMOC board is run then they need to be adressed internally.

Deleting posts just because they are critical of the MMOC doesn't sound like healthy behaviour though. If people have issues then they should IMO be free to express them, if their opinions are not valid then it can be pointed out to them why they arent valid.

This to me seems to be saying that the MMOC should deal directly with any criticismm and it should not be necessary to use another board to express an opinion.

Unfortunately the other board owner has not posted since February of this year, and I have been unable to contact by either PM, e-mail or telephone. However as an administrator of that board, I have never been advised of any such rule, and I can assure you that the setting up of the board was discussed with him in great detail.

Post by **alainmoran** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:09 pm

I think things are getting a bit confused here ... in my post I'm talking about THIS board.

IMO setting up an alternate board is divisive, and unlikely to work - there simply arent enough people with loads of time available to keep two boards going.

I hope that makes things clearer.

PS: Other boards get around the liability issue by stating in the footer that opinions expressed on the board dont nessecarily reflect the opinions of the MMOC - also if you read the T&C's then they do NOT actually state many of the things a lot of people are claiming that they do, in fact they seem to state quite the opposite ... they also state that the MMOC isnt liable for anything posted in here.

http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... Terms#full

Items 4, 5, 6, 7 seem to cover a lot of the deletions and amendments that *I* have noticed.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:11 pm

Actually post deletion can be requested and this does happen. The only irritation I have is that you cannot amend your post after a few minutes, a normal useful feature I find when I re read my own post and need to correct spellings etc.
The liberating good points of all of the non MMOC sites is that 'free ' discussion about how the MMOC could improve, or simply debate good and bad points without the constant reminder of over protective T and C's.
What we do not want though is for the non MMOC sites to be seen as a free for all to simply criticise the MMOC, as this is not fair to site owners. Debate on the performance on the MMOC site should, I believe, be encouraged as it can create a vibrant level of membership contribution and a healthier club.

Post by **Judge** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:20 pm

Exactly what I said. However you are also getting confused as to why the other board was started, the actual reason for which has already been explained. Also as far as I know, the people running this board, have nothing to do with the other board. So each is only running one board.

Edit - This post is in answer to the post by alainmoran, not yours Jonathon

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:43 pm

There are quite a few other Minor forums - and there's no reason not to have them, allowing for different etiquettes etc... but with the excellent technical support via the club site it's not easy for the competition!

Other boards get around the liability issue by stating in the footer that opinions expressed on the board dont nessecarily reflect the opinions of the MMOC

the statements help, however it can't dissolve the board owners of all of liability. The volvo owners forum was closed by litigation, leading to follow up actions at many major car clubs.
Litigation is sadly part of todays world

The MMOC had a lawsuit threatened when someone bought a possibly non-legitimate car via the forum. Legal action has been threatened on more than one occassion regarding forum comments about traders.

I'm told that one of the best way to avoid being sued is to have no money. The MMOC is however quite solvent! I'd rather the club spent it's money on club activities and not defending litigation.
In the past I've argued the case with the club directors regarding 'legitimate concerns about faulty new parts' but they did know their stuff and convinced me regarding the T&C's.
I really hope we end up with a system that allows more visibility regarding parts quality / trader reputation (i.e. promoting good parts and service over bad), but the working party has not seemed to get there yet.

Post by **jonathon** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:27 pm

As far as I can see (and I choose my words carefully) the 'working party 'was a sham, and never had a chance to succeed.
We only had a handfull of meetings over a 3 year period. These attended by only a handfull of attendees who, and I mean no disrespect, knew next to nothing about Minor traders and the producers/suppliers of Minor parts and their distribution.
No effort has been made to kick start this group again, and I believe that the MMOC will not persue a policy which promotes good traders over bad, and questions over product quality, as it would indeed contravene their own T and C's.
I'm not sure what sort of 'system of visibility' you envisage Ray but it will not be from the MMOC.