Morris Minor Owners Club

I have a 1962 morrie 1000 4 dr which I bought recently. It had being sitting in a shed since 1995. It went enough for me to load it on transport trailer.
I have re-newed distributor cap with one I can run modern suppression leads with-new plugs/ new rotor/ new points/ new condenser/ new top and bottom hoses and fan belt. Little bit of rust underneath but not on main chassis rails but what is there I have treated with rust dissolve.
My problem is that I have no oil getting up to top of motor. I have taken it for a couple of drives round the block and it runs ok but seems to lack power and it idles rough as though un-even. I have set the timing to the mark 5 degrees but it is a low compression motor and the book says set to 4 degrees and it seemed to run better being a little advanced.
I have taken the rockers off into local engineer and he said they needed replacing as badly pitted and welded together with oxidation. I got another rocker off club member which I cleaned with brake clean and the oil holes (3) seemed clear as I poked wire down them and the main oil hole to block also seemed clear as I poked wire down there as well. Assembled it all re-torqued it down to 300 inch pounds and re-set tappets but when I run it-still no oil getting to top of motor.
Someone suggested taking relief valve off and turning motor over to see if any oil gets pumped out and also suggested if I have to take rockers off again to turn motor over with rockers off and see if oil comes out of hole with plugs removed (to make it easier to turn over).
It has obviously over a period of time being getting quite a bit of moisture up to the top end which has resulted in the problem with the oxidation on the rockers-so whatever the problem it has being there for a while.

Welcome to the Forum! Can I suggest you post up your location in your Profile - just so we know where you are! As for the problem - you will indeed need to see if there is ANY oil pressure being generated round the engine. I have to ask - sorry if it's very basic - but are you sure there is oil in the sump? May be worth draining it out to check the quantity - and refill with new cheap oil (Asda or morrisons 20W50 will be fine. The filter should also be changed - although for the moment you could simply remove the old filter (in case it is blocked solid) and refit the can without any filter inside. Does the oil pressure warning light go out ? The relief valve may indeed be stuck open - or perhaps missing, or have no spring behind it - so that is a good place to start looking - and yes I would spin the engine on the starter with plugs out - don't run it again until you have oil flowing.

I live in New Zealand-south island-timaru. Yes I changed the oil when it was hot with valvoline 20/50 and also changed the oil filter!
I didn't put any flush through it though. I will check the relief valve as you say. thanks frank

Hi Frank, one thing I would be wary of is corrosion to the valve springs.If they are pitted by corrosion they are likely to suffer metal fatigue and break with potentially engine threatening results.I know this because it happened to me with two springs breaking simultaneously on the way to the national last year.You might be glad of an oil pressure gauge, if you fit one now it will tell you how well the engine is generally.

Don't worry about 'flush' - any oil flow will be good! As Ld says - an oil pressure gauge is THE one gauge you really should have. Not heard of valve springs corroding! In a very oily environment ?? I have broken springs before - but mainly due to high lift cam and very high revs ! However - it's a point worth noting.
When you refilled with new oil - that must have gone in over the rockers etc - wetting them considerably. Are you sure no new oil is getting up there - it just oozes out - don't expect a spray! If the relief valve seems ok - try cranking it - rocker shaft and plugs etc removed - and see if any oil comes up the hole in the head.

Mechanical oil pressure gauge-great idea, I will keep an eye out for one at work.
I removed the oil relief valve and spring tonight-spring about 71mm long. I took the plugs out and cranked it over and there definitley oil coming out of hole. So we are surmising a blockage between block and head. I am going to take the rockers off again and a friend is coming around with compressor and gun so we can blow in hole in block and hopefully get the air to come through the pressure relief valve hole-which should establish the oil way is clear. If we can do that then we've hit the jackpot.
Will attack this on friday on my day off and hopefully all goes well so I can take it for a spin.
The next task will be to replace two frost plugs which are leaking down by metal oil line coming from oil filter housing-two back ones-sods of things to get at too.

Mentioned this recently on a simlilar problem. Is the oil feed hole in the rocker shaft lined up with the oil feed hole in the pedastal. There is a locating screw on top of the 1st? pedastal which should clamp the rocker shaft in the correct position.
Can you move the rockers smoothly on the shaft?

Is the oil feed hole in the rocker shaft lined up with the oil feed hole in the pedastal

And are the pedastals in the correct position? There is only one that has the oil feed hole through it, and it must line up with the oil feed hole in the head and the rocker shaft.

Crank it with the rockers OFF (and plugs out) - to see if any oil comes up the hole through the head!

I had a squeaking pushrod/rocker because the pocket was dry. Pulled the rocker assembly and found the passageway through the rocker was clogged. Could not open it up. I actually put it back together with some oil in the pocket and now 30 years later it still doesn't squeak. The lubrication must be more splash than pressure up there.

I removed the replacement rockers this evening and will take them into engineer friend tomorrow to disassemble and check over (clean and reface if needed), then I know where I am with that at least.
I have ordered a mechanical oil pressure gauge through work which should arrive tuesday next week so once fitted I will have a better idea of how good the oil pressure is or isn't.
Should I try blowing through hole in head with compressed air with pressure relief valve removed to check oil passage clear or should I put relief valve back in (making sure valve goes in freely), and then try cranking engine over with plugs removed to see if oil come out of hole in block as you have suggested!
It has being suggested to me that there is a risk with blowing compressed air through hole in head that I could compound problem if sludge down there by moving it around oil ways causing a blockage somewhere else. To me though there is liquid oil in the hole in block-which is a good sign.
I feel that maybe I should put bypass valve back first and then check the oil way by cranking it over, if nothing come out then maybe look at using lacing wire or compressed air to clear passage-what you think?

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Yes! Put the relief valve back in - and crank the engine - no plugs and no rockers - oil MUST come up through the hole in the head! Once that happens - any further problem must be down to mis-alignment of rocker pillars and/or blocked up oil ways in the rocker shaft itself. But get oil up through the head before trying anything else.

The engineer advised me to try turning it over with pressure relief valve in of coarse but he also said to keep winding it over until oil light went out and there should be oil coming up through the hole in block-however I tryed this twice and nothing came out. However in saying that the pressure from the pump would not be as great winding it over as it would be with the engine running-so it is possible it may not come out. I couldn't say as havn't tryed this with a healthy engine. If it should indeed come out then I most definitley have another blockage between the block and head which without stripping it down can only really clear with a compressor.
I heard back from the engineer yesterday whom I took my rockers into in order to get checked over. He found that the main oil feed hole was blocked between pedestal and rocker shaft and he had to drill it out to clear it. The rockers he re-faced and said that the shaft was quite worn but otherwise he said it was ready to go and should work.<br><br>

Did you take the plugs out before you span the engine over?
That should let it spin over nice and quick and so build up oil pressure faster.

With plugs out and a decent battery - it should easily generate 70 psi oil pressure on cold oil! If that doesn't flow up through the head - there is serious blockage. Can't see a 'compressor' clearing it - probing with long wire may be the way! If he had to 'drill out' the feed through the pedestal - the situation must indeed be grim. The rocker shaft - and the rocker bushes - will be bound to be badly worn if they have run with no oil. I would have thought 'refacing' the rockers would be the least of the worries. Chase up another set of rockers (complete with shaft and pedestals) from a Mini. But don't fit them until you have got that oil flowing up through the cylinder head!

The engineer dropped off rockers to me today and they have being re-faced and the oil way is clear as you can see the hole right through to the hole on the shaft (provided lined up).
These are not the original rockers off car as the ones that came off were beyond repair (too badly oxidised to get apart & badly pitted). These are some others I got off a friend in the morris minor club here in timaru and were in comparison to mine in much better shape.
I tryed turning it over again with plugs out and pressure relief valve removed and I wound over until oil light went out but nothing came out.
We then took the pressure relief valve cap and spring out but left valve in engine and then proceeded to apply air through hole in block with compressor-this then blew the pressure relief valve out so we now know the oil way is clear down to the relief valve and also the pump pushes out oil of the relief valve hole so in theory it should now all work! : Will re-assemble tomorrow and try. If it does work I will then run some STP engine flush through it to clean it all out.

I would rather use a cheap oil as an engine flush because with older engines using a proper engine flush can leave you with some extra small leaks.

Having achieved getting oil up to the top end by clearing oil feed hole on rockers and also clearing feed oil way on head I now notice that there is blow by coming into the rocker cover when you take lid off with warm engine and engine running. There is also blow by noticeable coming out of breather beside engine. Apart from the obvious that the engine is warn-what causes this? I suspect that I have a faulty valve-if I only overhaul the cylinder head would this be a problem (would it make the blow by worse)? or will I need to overhaul the whole engine?

Normally this suggest poor sealing of the piston rings.
Either due to wear or being stuck in their grooves.
As the oilways on your engine apper to have been "coked up" it sounds like poor qaulity oil has been used and not changed often enough.
To be sure you would need to take the head off and look at the condition of the bores.

Do you get blue smoke from the exhaust if its been left ticking over for a while?

I'd tend to add a pint or 2 of diesel engine oil to the sump (take some out 1st don'r over fill) then run it for several hundred miles.
Diesel oil has a lot of detergent in it and should have the effect of cleaning the carbon out of the engine and keeping in suspension any that doesn't get cleaned out by the filter.
Synthetic and semi synthetic should have a similar effect.

Should I try blowing through hole in head with compressed air with pressure relief valve removed to check oil passage clear or should I put relief valve back in (making sure valve goes in freely), and then try cranking engine over with plugs removed to see if oil come out of hole in block as you have suggested!

yes - you really should see some flow out of the oil feed hole when cranking. As you've got the oilway open it doesn't need much pressure at all (only a few psi) to get oil up there.

On engine rebuilds I usually prime the top end by squirting oil down this hole and cranking over - if the pump is working properly and the oil filter has also been primed it should take very little time to get oil flowing through the top end oilway.