1967 Morris 1000 - engine replacement

[HannahJC]

My little Nelly has just started to leak even more oil than usual and the first diagnosis that we have been given is that this is probably leaking from the back end of the crank shaft. I have been told that the best fix for this would be to have a recondition unit fitted as fixing the current engine would not be economical.

It would be great if somebody could give me a steer on:

1) Who make the best reconditioned engines/are there any that should be avoided

2) How long/approximately how much should the labour be to replace one.

Many thanks in advance<br><br>

[grumpygrandad]

hello your engine would need to be very worn to justy a recond unit rather than a rear crank seal,,grandad

[PSL184]

Its about 2 hours labour to remove engine and about £2.00 for the crank seal to replace it. Recon unit fitted would be about £1200.00 Are you sure you need a new engine ???

[bmcecosse]

Welcome to the forum! The leak may be easily fixed - so don't rush into a recon engine until you have tried. First check - are you using 20W50 oil, and is it to the correct level and not overfilled ? Second check - are the engine breathers clear and not choked - and is the rocker breather pipe connected directly to the carb ? Third check - with hot engine at idling speed, take the oil filler cap off - is there a huge plume of smoke/fume ? If so - then indeed an engine may be required, but if only a little light smoke, it should be controllable with attention to the breathers. We are not allowed to tell you of any 'bad' suppliers - but if you look the other posts there is a report of a 'recon' engine which is giving concern because of heavy smoke - contact that person directly and discover where they got that engine - so you can avoid !! You don't say where you are - but there may be engine recondition specialists near to you who would deal with your engine more reasonably than paying heavy carriage costs both ways to a distant supplier. Check your local Yellow pages - and phone around - but only go for an engine if you are sure you need one. It would be wise to renew the clutch at the same time - so budget that into the equation too!

[Peetee]

I thought I had the same problem but fortunately it turned out to be a failed gasket on the cover of the oil pump - which was a very cheap fix.

[bmcecosse]

BTW - there is no rear oil seal on a standard A series engine - it relies on a simply scroll running closely within a labyrinth. There is an after-market seal that can be fitted - but it is an engine-out job to fit it! Rear crank leaks are caused by badly worn main bearings - and high internal block pressure forcing oil and fume past the scroll. If the bearings are worn then a crank regrind may cure the problem - along with attention to the piston rings (although a rebore and new pistons may be necessary) and attention to the breather connections.

[simmitc]

There's good advice above as to whether you really need a recon engine or not. If the engine is generally OK, and it's just the leak that concerns you, then how bad is the leak? These engines will quite happily run for 1000's of miles whilst dripping oil. As long as you put a drip tray underneath and regularly top up the oil to the correct level, then you could just carry on as you are.

The add-on oil seal is a waste of time and money - dependent on some very accurate machining and tolerances that I have not yet found on any crankshaft. Don't go there.

As noted by BMC, the standard "seal" is just a scroll, and the leak is due to excessive wear. If you're into a regrind and new bearings, plus possibly rebore and rings, then you're probably better off just getting a recon engine.

To answer your original question, the best warranty that I have seen is offered by Bull Motif with 18 months / 18,000 miles. You can get duplex timing chains, unleaded heads, and spin-on oil filters as options. I've fitted two of their engines, and they are the quietest, smoothest units that I have seen in thirty odd years. I drove from Essex to Edinburgh and back, with no appreciable oil consumption at all.

Other suppliers are available, and check the specification as to what is included in the reconditioning.

The "book" time is four hours out and four hours in for an engine. Experienced chaps working with the correct tools and on cars where nuts and bolts are greased can get it down to about half that, more relaxed people will double it. A lot depends on whether the engine has ever been out since the car was built - nuts that have been untouched for forty years will require more effort than those which are only ten years old, and were greased on assembly.

What's the mileage on the car? If you're replacing a high mileage engine, then it would make sense to fit a new clutch at the same time.

Whichever way you go, good luck, and enjoy the car.

[HannahJC]

Thanks for all of your help. It is great to have second opinions on things. Nelly has always dripped a bit, but on a recent trip doen from Gatwick to Dorset on Boxing day we spotted a dinner plate sized oil slick under her after returning to the car after a 5 minute comfort break.

We poured some oil in and then kept topping up on the way down...and probably overfilled her a bit, but she got us down to Dorset.

Since then we have managed the 100 mile trip back and even though we stopped every 30 minutes to check the oil we did not need to top her up (as was still a bit past the Max). Since then we have not yet moved her

I think there is probably some oil on the clutch plate though as I think i could feel this slipping a bit when accelerating hard when doing 50 or so....

Would it be a really bad plan to just keep driving her at the moment ad just keeping an eye on the oil?

We are taking her for a diagnosis over near Guildford on Friday so will
update on our progress.

Many thanks

Hannah

[chrisd87]

If the clutch has been contaminated with oil then it probably won't get any better and really needs to be replaced.

Was the engine making any nasty noises when you did the trip? When the main bearings wear there is normally a rather horrid knocking/rumbling sound when the engine is under load.

My advice would be to make a full assessment of the condition of the engine before proceeding (compression test, oil pressure check, etc) - you may find that the bores, rings and cyl head are perfectly serviceable meaning that only a recon crank and new bearing shells are needed. Although still an engine out job, it'll be cheaper than a complete recon unit.

[bmcecosse]

Perfectly safe to keep using it. The clutch will likely not get any better - and certainly don't overfill ! Two queries - does the oil pressure warning light (orange) come on when idling or at any other time -and, is there any significant smoke from the exhaust after the initial cold start vapours have cleared ?

[rayofleamington]

Would it be a really bad plan to just keep driving her at the moment ad just keeping an eye on the oil?

same comment as above - keep using it as long as the oil level is checked regular and you don't let it go below min then no harm done (except to the road surface...)
It really is worth to do the checks mentioned by bmceco before shelling out on an engine.
The garage labour rate makes a big difference on having your engine rebuilt or buying a recon unit. At ~£50 an hour it doesn't take much work at all to make the recon unit look a good deal if it comes with a warranty. Garage engine rebuild will likely cost you many more hours labour if the engine goes back together but still has problems ;-)

However if you're on a tight budget then the best deal you can get would be a GOOD second hand engine from a rotten Minor. These are always worth having and usually cost a small fraction of a recon unit.

Garages?
Hiring an engine hoist for a weekend is not expensive - if you can get a couple of semi-mechanically profficient people to help, then replacing the engine is not actually that hard...
Money spent on tools like a decent set of imperial spanners (AF) is never money lost - they will pay for themselves many times over...

I do recognise that some people really really do not have the aptitude for dIY car work, but for those who do, it's worth learning - especially if you have a classic car!!

[HannahJC]

As promised an update on Nelly... a second more qualified opinion confirmed that the oil is coming from the crankshaft.

We were then offered a second hand engine with about 30k on it fitted for a very reasonable price and so she is currently waiting for her heart surgery to start tomorrow. All going well we will have her back at the weekend ready for another year of fun motoring.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Hannah

[bmcecosse]

It was always going to be from the crankshaft - the question was - why? Hope the replacement engine is ok - and is a new clutch plate being fitted ?