1380 questions

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Matt
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1380 questions

Post by Matt »

Hi Guys

My marina engine (currently on +60 thou) is dead :( It decided to spew oil all over the motorway and sieze (a bearing spun and welded itself to the conrod and crank)

The bores have gone oval (not entirely how much by - however I will be finding out this week)

Whats involved in turning it to a 1380 (73.5mm bore). I believe an offset bore is required so would it be best to take it to a mini specialist (probably minispeed) to get it done correctly? Is a special headgasket required?

Thanks
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downsey
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Post by downsey »

I have a buddy who used to build 1380s for mini mania (US based company) and he says theyre really unreliable, like to overheat.
linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

downsey wrote:I have a buddy who used to build 1380s for mini mania (US based company) and he says theyre really unreliable, like to overheat.
Especially if the feed pipe to the oil guage fractures again :cry: Sorry to hear your engine is worse than originally thought, Matt. If you're thinking of chucking the lot in the crusher I'll have the exhaust!! :lol: Think I would bundle a complete replacement lump in. The benefits of a few extra cc probably not worth the concerns. If it's gone oval at +60, what will it do if you go further?
Matt
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Post by Matt »

f it's gone oval at +60, what will it do if you go further?
Well next size is 1380, or sleeve the block.
If you're thinking of chucking the lot in the crusher I'll have the exhaust!!
I have a midget engine and type 9 going in temporarily (but I need that engine for my midget) - when I have sorted out what I am doing I may not need an A series manifold and a 1.75" exhaust, I will need something with a 4 branch and a 2" exhaust. When that happens I will put the bits up for sale!
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Kevin
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Post by Kevin »

Well next size is 1380, or sleeve the block.
Recently had a Midget blocked sleeved and its not cheap, mine was a silver seal one that was already sleeved (aparently not unusual with silver seal blocks) so it had to have the old sleeves bored out then bored for the sleeves and finally the new sleeves bored, so it was a triple re-bore with sleeves and this was with a so called good engine.
Cheers

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Matt
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Post by Matt »

Im not getting in to large machining operations on this engine, its just not worth it, especially not when you see how much you can pick up a spares/repairs escort with a zetec engine ;)
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bmcecosse
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Post by bmcecosse »

1380 will probably not work if the bores are already at +60. the offset boring has to be done before the bores get to that size! They are also very very prone to overheating - and to gasket blowing. The space left between bores is incredibly thin. And - the pistons are horrendously expensive - although some much less expensive ones seems to be coming from Aus these days. Although not 'forged' they do seem to be ok for sane road use.
And yes Kevin - both my 1275 inline blocks have sleeves from new - and many of my 1275 Mini engines had them too! Good thing is - they wear much less than bare bores.
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linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

Matt wrote:Im not getting in to large machining operations on this engine, its just not worth it, especially not when you see how much you can pick up a spares/repairs escort with a zetec engine ;)
Aaah- is this the reference to 4 branch exhaust? I was a bit baffled about a 4 branch on a midget engine!
linearaudio

Post by linearaudio »

bmcecosse wrote:1380 will probably not work if the bores are already at +60. the offset boring has to be done before the bores get to that size! They are also very very prone to overheating - and to gasket blowing. The space left between bores is incredibly thin. And - the pistons are horrendously expensive - although some much less expensive ones seems to be coming from Aus these days. Although not 'forged' they do seem to be ok for sane road use.
And yes Kevin - both my 1275 inline blocks have sleeves from new - and many of my 1275 Mini engines had them too! Good thing is - they wear much less than bare bores.
I've heard the lined blocks were re-works due to casting blow holes or machining slips. Sounds like leyland had quite a rework rate in the good ole 70's!! It might account for wildly varying claims for bore wear if it was a roulette thing-whether you got a sleeved block or not. Wonder if any were only sleeved on one or two pots?
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Post by IslipMinor »

They are also very very prone to overheating - and to gasket blowing
A sample of one is not necessarily reliable, but our 1380 has done neither of these in 30,000+ miles of road and track day use, and the engine had already done 10,000 miles with the previous owner in a different car.

The only problem with overheating came when I removed the by-pass hose, so it went back. It has a high capacity water pump from MiniSpares, but fitted with a large diameter pulley to prevent overspeeding, and I also run a permanent flow through the back of the head via the heater.

Crawling for 3 hours during the Lord Mayor's Show parade a couple of weeks ago, followed by a track day at Goodwood 2 days later showed exactly the same water temperature range (170°F to 190°F).

Matt,

It does need to be done by an A-Series specialist, and would be worth seeing if your Marina block has been sleeved and whether it is too late as it's already at +0.060".

The head gasket I use is from MiniSpares, and is their part no. TAM1521. It has a thin section between cylinders 2 and 3, which is quite narrow after the 73.5mm bore, and the gasket should not overhang the bore.

For reasons nothing to do with head gasket, the actual time between changes has been a maximum of around 12,000 miles. After the first 3 years (10,000 miles) I stripped the engine to re-hone the bores, then after about another 12,000 miles I had some work done on the head to increase the CR to 10.4. In neither case did the head gasket look in need of replacement, but obviously was as part of the rebuild.

If you do go the 1380 bore route, make sure that you use a very basic 20W/50 oil to run the engine in. The problem I had when I bought the engine was that it had only ever been run on a fully synthetic oil from new, and the rings had never seated properly - oil consumption of 1 litre per 200 miles at best! After re-honing the bores, new rings for the Omega pistons and running in properly, the consumption now is around 1,000 per litre on full synthetic, which is very acceptable.
Richard


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Post by bmcecosse »

Good news there Richard! Maybe the huge Minor radiator helps - the overheating reports come from Mini land - where the rad is only half the size. My last mini was 1380 - and it ran perfectly cool and didn't blow the gasket - but I was never very confident of it's long term prospects!
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Post by jonathon »

Matt, thought I'd just let you know that a 1360 is now available on a 60thou over. This conversion does not off set the bores and leaves the same cylinder spacing as the 1380.
On a Mini with a half good head you will see over 95bhp. The assumption is that the cooling if in tip top condition too. Pm me if you would like further details. :D

Matt
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Post by Matt »

Hi Jonathon

Do you mean +80?

+60 = 1330?

I *think* I am going to go down the zetec route (probably a 1.6 or 1.8 to start) using standard ECU because a complete car car can be got cheaper than the machining costs... I know its a lot of work, but time I have, cash I dont!

Cheers tho
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jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

Yes thats correct Matt.
beware the costs of waterrails,sump mods waterpump swaps etc etc if going Zetec. It can be done cheaply, but beware of cheap products. Plenty of info out there to convert though.

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Post by paulk »

I'll be keeping my Escort keys under survelance next time we meet Matt :o


:wink: :wink:
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