I`VE GONE AND BROKE IT

Post by **pegasus** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:30 pm

I was sitting at the traffic lights today waiting to pull out onto a dual carriageway. As i pulled away there was an almighty bang, followed by a succession of loud bangs as the car started to kangaroo accross the junction. My first thought was that the propshaft had come away from the diff (bolts broken). I managed to get over the junction and onto the side of the road, got out to have a look and couldnt see any problem with the prop. I started the car again and managed to get it into a side road where it stalled. Now i can push the car, i can start the engine but only with the clutch pressed down. The engine will not turn over if i dont press the clutch down, and it will not pull away at all it will just stall.
I am thinking that something has broken in the gearbox, as the clutch seems to be working, are there any other thoughts on this or do i seem to be on the right path with it.
Thanks all
Mark

Post by **Luxobarge** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:49 pm

Sounds like gearbox to me...

Sorry!

Post by **pegasus** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:06 pm

Its not a problem as i have a spare, but i think i wil replace the clutch while the box is out. Just the wrong time of year to be working outside, i was hoping for an easier fix i suppose. Oh well i`ll go and dust off my spanners then.

Post by **simmitc** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:12 pm

You describe perfectly what happens when teeth strip from a cog within the box. The succession of bangs and kangaroo occur as the remaining teeth allow the cog to alternately mesh and spin free. Eventually the remaining teeth give up the ghost, and some of the broken bits lock the whole thing solid. Sorry, but gearbox it is.

Post by **pegasus** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:37 pm

Thanks guys you`ve confirmed what i thought, i will get the boxout tomorrow weather permitting.
Just one more question, as my steering rack needs adjusting is it easier to get to when the box is out as it looks like it runs accross the bellhousing.
Thanks
Mark

Post by **alex_holden** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:43 pm

I think it would be easier to get the box out and in again if you removed the rack first (it tends to get in the way of the bell housing), unless you decide to crane the engine and box out as one lump instead.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:38 pm

Easier to whip the engine out - then the box - unless you have a crane that can handle the weight of the combined unit. Yes - may as well have a go at the rack while the box is out! As Alex says though - if your are taking the box out from below (a nasty business!) then you may well do best to remove the rack first.

Post by **pegasus** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:42 pm

The last time i took a gearbox out of one of these cars i removed the seats and the big plate in the floor and took the box out through the car. It was 24 years ago though.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:44 pm

Yes - well that is one way - it's the getting it past the rack etc when refitting that's the difficult part as I remember! And it was about 40 years ago I last did this miserable job!

Post by **MoggyTech** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:03 pm

Horrid job from underneath. Beg, borrow an engine crane, take the front off the car, and lift out engine and box as a unit. Very easy to damage the clutch splines doing this job from under the car. You have to twist the gearbox to clear the steering rack, then wiggle it into the clutch, flywheel, as you rotate it to normal position. 45Lbs gets pretty heavy after half an hour.

If you have a strong helper, you can remove engine and box with two trolley jacks and a short plank to drag it over the front cross-member.

Pretty sure you will find it's the laygear that's broken. Usually a trapped air bubble in the casting, more so with the pattern ones.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:08 pm

On Minis - it's the layshaft that usually gives up first!
However - this was 'pulling away from lights' - so it's likely 1st gear that has disintegrated!

Post by **pegasus** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:14 pm

Unfortunately i can`t get my hands on an engine crane just yet otherwise i would change the engine as well (i have a recon in the shed with 1500 miles on it). I`me not in too much of a rush though as i have another car to use while i work on this one.
Thanks for all the help and i will report back when the job is done.
Mark

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:21 pm

With no crane it's still very possible to get the engine out - take the rad and front panels off and work it forwards on a trolley jack then up and over the front crossmember. Then the gearbox can be accessed easily!
You could of course use a simple hoist - like my 'swing' hoist!

Childs swing widened with a steel pipe - and then a Canadian Tire 6$ pull-lift attached. Packs away into the Traveller in less than 10 minutes.

Post by **Bazzalucas** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:53 pm

I literally just came inside from taking my 'box out (from underneath). Not the easiest process, but not horrid. Found that tilting the tail up after pulling it away from the engine allowed me to slip it out from the "pinch" between engine and steering rack. Then I let it down bellhousing first to the ground. Voila!
(that is French...for you fans of "Chicken Run")

Post by **pegasus** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm

The engine thats in isnt too bad, i did want to repaint the recon engine before fitting. I was going to wait untill i had replaced the wood next year, then buy myself an engine crane. I do have pulley blocks but no A frame, as i used to restore p4`s, p5`s and p6`s, but the blocks were attatched to a large girderin the roof of the garage.
I think i will just replace the box for now and pull the engine when the rest is done i can then paint the engine bay.

Post by **Peetee** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:05 pm

Not trying to show off but I've had a 948 out singlehanded without a crane. I used a car jack and blocks of wood to protect the cross member. I did need a hand getting it back in though.

Post by **callyspoy** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:12 pm

the whole thing about getting the 'box in from underneath really isn't a problem. It isn't a job i enjoy doing, far from it, but i think it's a lot easier than it seems. maybe i've just done it too many times. My main problems with doing a gearbox...
taking the prop off(the nut and bolt are a dog to get to with the marina diff)
the LCB is a pain to take off as you have to get carb and manifold off to tilt the engine back
draining the box(it just isn't fun!)
oh yeah, i'm also soooo impatient!
but...it is a relatively quick job if you have the bits to hand.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:20 pm

Well - I struggled for a long time the last time I did it - lying on my back with very limited room under the car! It was a nightmare! Would be much easier with a ramp - or a pit, I suppose.

Post by **callyspoy** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:30 pm

oooh...i put it on ramps(as in drive up ones) rather than jacking it up, that was a fairly new thing to me(im only a sprog) and the clearance difference was unbelievable! took a few attempts to get it up though! please, no jokes about that!

Post by **MoggyTech** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:16 am

Oh er misses, steady now.