Brake leverage

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:18 pm

Something thats been niggling me for a while- the harder I press the brake pedal the harder I have to press it. Now hopefully the Wolseley brakes I just unearthed (literally) at my local scrappy will be a huge improvement over the 7" I have on my Traveller, but.... I was bored waiting for the hammerite to dry on my super-duper 9" backplates and lifted the cover from over the M/C then noticed that by taking a line from the pivot centre to the pedal pad-the angle is greater than 90degrees to the cylinder rod. Surely that makes for a disasterous mechanical advantage,which only worsens as you push the pedal?-hence my first comment. Has anyone thought of shifting the brake pedal pivot forward say 2.5" and lengthening the pushrod to suit? This would then put the angle at less than 90 degrees. Obviously it would need a bit of adjustment of the lever etc, but... has this been postulated before?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:51 pm

Really not necessary. Dunno how you have survived with 7" front brakes - you will go straight through the screen with 9" W brakes !!

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:55 am

Yet a friend of mine has standard brakes and shakes his head at the idea of uprating them-"just learn to leave more space in front of you" he says. I suppose he believes that all those who would normally pull out/fill that space/ run across in front of you etc see it's a Minor and think better of it!!! As I said, I'm expecting huge improvements with the Wolseley brakes, but it was just an observation that the lever angle surely can't help the situation either! Whilst we are here, do the rear brakes ever warrant upgrading?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:06 pm

Well - you can of course fit the larger rear brakes from a Wolseley 1500 or Riley 1.5 - they are 8" diameter and make hand brake turns very easy! Not necessary on the road. One problem with W front brakes is - makes locking of front tyres all too easy as I discovered today on greasy hill roads. My thin old tyres just don't grip the tarmac all that well. Modern tyres with decent width and good pliable rubber should be fine even under these wet/greasy conditions.

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:19 pm

"Lock the tyres up"!! Boy- do I need to get rid of those 7" drums. next it will be on with the 12g940 head and a "how-do-I-get-the-MG Metro LCB-to-fit" query!

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:27 pm

...and the "with an awful lot of tube cutting/bending/fabrication answer"

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:42 pm

So what IS the fave answer? The stainless jobs sound to be a/ expensive , and b/ likely not to fit and/or break unexpectedly. Has this been subject to a poll or anything? (I'm new to all this).

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:57 pm

AFAIAR, it was only the one from one maker that was causing problems.Whether or not that's still true I don't know.
A warning though, folks - if you want to name that maker, do it by PM

Post by **IaininTenbury** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:32 pm

bmcecosse wrote: One problem with W front brakes is - makes locking of front tyres all too easy as I discovered today on greasy hill roads. My thin old tyres just don't grip the tarmac all that well.

Yep. I agree....

Will be having some nice sticky tyres on, when all the bent bits are straight again...
I fitted Wolseley brakes a few years back after getting fed up with the brake fade on the standard brakes. The braking was fine for the standard engined van, but a couple of brisk drives across the Peak District left them very much worse for wear.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:00 am

Oh dear - well i've never had the slightest bit of 'fade' -and I was up and down many steep hills yesterday - briskly too. But wheel locking on steep narrow country lanes with leaves was a problem a couple of times! Did this bump happen through brake fade - or sliding front tyres ?

Post by **IaininTenbury** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:42 pm

It was a fully locked up slide on a greasy damp single track lane - very much as you described. The Corsa that I hit skidded about the same distance till we met...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:51 pm

Ahh - so would have happened with any brake that could lock the wheel - disc or drum. Too bad - looks a v nice Van - hope the insurance don't just write it off! Anyone come up with an ABS system suitable for a Minor ??

linearaudio · Post by **linearaudio** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:16 pm

Yes- I believe it's called cadence braking! "All" you have to do is release the brake as it locks then re-apply ad infinitum (about 5 times a second). Easy when you know how apparently, so my wife nags(I mean tells) me! Or go back to 7" brakes- no fear of locking up ha-ha!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:23 pm

Yes - well that did sort out my sliding problem on saturday, and there happened to be a handy wee bit of lay-by - but it's all too easy to just keep pressing the pedal harder and harder!

Post by **Dean** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:34 pm

O dear, I bet you made a right mess of the Corsa if it did that to your minor!!!

Post by **IaininTenbury** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:08 pm

Yeah not sure if the Wolseley brakes helped or not there. I suspect standard brakes would have locked it up anyway as it was new tarmac, fairly greasy, with water running across it from a field. I'm aware of cadence braking and have tried it in the past - mainly on snow and ice when theres plenty of room to play with, this occaision was a bit too quick and 'in yer face' to think that quick. And on a road only 7' wide there wasn't a lot of opportunity to steer round.
Anyway the van is a write off, but I'll be keeping it. Using mainly s/h bits it shouldn't be too daunting to put right. Corsa was write off too. Something to do with the creased roof I expect...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:33 am

As long as no one was injured - I guess that's the really important aspect.

Post by **IaininTenbury** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:48 am

Still going to physio for my knee, which I put a dent in the dashboard with, but its only a, dare I say it, minor injury.... Other guy was alright, though oddly the airbag didnt go off.