Picking a good restorer article (nebulous idea)

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Pyoor_Kate
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Picking a good restorer article (nebulous idea)

Post by Pyoor_Kate »

So, given my recent experience (or more my discovery of my past experience ;-/ ) I've been lending some thought to the idea of doing a little article on picking a restorer for the MMOC mag.

Obviously I can't name the company that ruined my car (unless you PM me, then I'll tell you all about them :) ), but could maybe give some advice regarding picking a good restorer (now I've been given quite a few suggestions). And depending on the outcome of my current discussions, how to deal with a restoration gone wrong...

Obviously, naming no names, it'd be good to get any suggestions from people about things to include - and how you pick a good company to do work for you :)

I'm not 100% set on writing it as yet, but it seems like a good plan.
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

First and foremost is trust and transparency. I would definitely as for recommendations, followed by a trip to the chosen company to view work in progress,the workshop facilities and general feel of their business. You also need to see a finished article and ask about budget,overspending and above all be 100% certain that you get over your requirements,that these are understood and an estimate is arrived at that is acceptable.
beware quotes, I do not see how one can give these for bodywork, especially if the only experience the company have is a verbal or diagramatic appraisal.
Make regular visits if the project is long term and ask for updates.
Long projects will often attract a deposit plus interim payments which can be linked to stages of the build.
Above all be realistic,a lot of folk expect a full structural rebuilt and repaint for£1000 or so. Hourly rates will range from £25-£35 ph so it will not take too many hours to build up a sizeable fee.
If you are unsure about any aspect of the work to be performed then 'ask' communication is key.
There are a lot more points to consider ,but these are a start, I hope :D :wink:

SteveandWilliam
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Post by SteveandWilliam »

Its a tricky one this, because one person might have a bad experience from a supplier, while everyone else is very happy. If you are keen on pursuing this ( and I think its an excellent idea) you need to conduct a private survey, then publish the results as a summary, a bit like Which? You'd get results like "23 out of 25 owners found Morris Bodgers plc installed the rear springs upside down". The findings would be factual, and not attributed to any individual. I am sure lots of people would PM their experiences if they felt they were not going to be exposed. Needs some thought.... hope you get it done before I need a restorer...
Steve & William
If you are good with a hammer, you think everything is a nail.Image
chickenjohn
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Post by chickenjohn »

There is a problem with this- it can be very difficult to asses the work of a restorer without picking it all apart (with grinder and drill) and even then only someone who has restored cars well themselves will know the difference. A customer could be could be blissfully happy with a restorers work, for 3 or 4 years untill the rust comes through again. Many companies make a career out of this sort of work.

I think the best thing you can do is join your local branch and ask the firendly folk there of good and bad restorer experiences.

Kate, please PM me details of your bad restorer experience, who it was, what they did etc. I'm interested to know.

At the end of the day, though, the only way to be sure of how something was done is to do it yourself, go on a vehicle restoration night course, learn to weld!
Cheers John - all comments IMHO
- Come to this years Kent branches Hop rally! http://www.kenthop.co.uk
(check out the East Kent branch website http://www.ekmm.co.uk )
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aupickup
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Post by aupickup »

courses will only show u the basics,it will not dramatically turn you into a car restorer.

this is a skill and takes many years

yes of course it means we can do the odd bit of welding, patch etc, and i have seen many very good home restored cars and vans etc.

my advice would be

never pay up front, but make stage payments when u are happy with the work

inspect the work at all stages,and only make a stage payment when fully happy and if u dont know then take some one with you.

try body specialists as well as the morris specialists
after all they are all body work guys

also make sure you tell the guys doing it what you want, ie is it a patch job for an mot, or a proper cut out out and repair

and i suppose as well, if buying a resto job, get one that is basically sound or you will be throwing good money away
Pyoor_Kate
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Post by Pyoor_Kate »

Aye, let me make clear that I'm not intending to do a which? style survey of restorers. Who's happy with what, isn't my aim.

It's how to at least get an idea whether you're likely to end up with your car coming back with the right shape panels, in the right place, properly fitted and protected. Whether the company you've chosen is likely to leave you with plates over rust covered with underseal.

That kind of thing :)
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

I think that the 'working group', if we actually got around to meeting :roll: is the best way forward re quality of restorers/traders.
To compile a guide like this though is very difficult, as customers will ask for just a repair, or a proper restoration, or both.
The only way to ensure that the job has been done correctly is to have a full photographic history of the restoration. We always supply this in CD, email or both forms so that the customer is aware that one, the job has been performed correctly and two that we cover ourselves.
You would be surprised how many customers come in for some work,get an estimate for it ,then when we get into the job , other issues appear that were known to the customer but they failed to mention, or when rebuilding a car you find the electrics do not function correctly,and on questioning the customer admits to it not having worked when it came in.
We used to put everything right into the price, but now we give cars a full test before starting work, just to make sure that apart from the booked in work ,everything else is okay. If not then the estimate will be amended.
John's idea of folk enrolling on courses is fine if you have the time funds and inclination. You will also need the facilities and equipment to perform the jobs required and be 100% certain of your skills.
We have seen many jobs by 'so called' good DIY'rs and have been horrified at what they think is good work, on the other hand we have seen fantastic work performed, that would not be out of place from a pro body shop.
Workmanship is only one aspect of bodywork, the raw materials are another, ie panels. The merits of the different manufacturers have been discussed at length on other threads, but the knowledge of which panels have been used is vital. The British made ones in particular Heritage, use good grade steel, which will last and welds easily, the worst are the far east derived ones which arrive rusty and are poor grade steel, do not weld consistently, and often blow through.
The fit of most panels is average, I dread to think of the shape a minor would take if the panels were welded together as presented rather than taking time to re shape and manipulate them into the correct form.
Lastly preparation, is the key word with and bodywork. Its good policy to strip off all of the original black paint that covers repair panels, (wings are okay) and re paint with a zinc rich weld through primer. This offers good protection to areas like box sections that cannot be cleaned up after welding. Welds should be cleaned up too with a wire wheel or local shot blasting, then zinc primed again. If this basic good practice is not performed then the job will not last and your on the slippery slope of possible of short term repairs.
The rest of the prep and final paint has been covered in other posts so won't ramble on

:D :wink:

dp
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Post by dp »

You could ask the restorer if they can supply you with contact details for previous customers. Talking to one or two privately and perhaps seeing their cars could help.
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jonathon
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Post by jonathon »

Yep, but I'd only add that some of them should have had work done over differing lengths of time to judge the longevity of the workmanship.

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