Morris Minor Owners Club

Our local branch secretary has asked me to post this question as he seems to be running out of ideas:

He has a '60 traveller (converted to 1098cc) and his clutches only seem to last 12 months before he has to replace them due to constant juddering.

If he leaves the car for a few days it seems to be OK, but then gets a lot worse when it is hot.

He has the gearbox cable tight, and the engine steady is fine. All engine and gearbox mounting rubbers secured properly.

He is on his 3rd clutch now and is getting a bit fed up with it.

He has had his flywheel checked and it is OK. Every time he fits the clutch he replaces the whole kit and not just the friction plate.

Maybe the plate is getting contaminated? I just wondered what your opinions on the subject might be.

Thanks.

If he leaves the car for a few days it seems to be OK, but then gets a lot worse when it is hot.

Could the problem be something to do with the pedal/shaft assembly? perhaps the clutch is not engaging fully because of worn/stiff linkage.

Could be, I'll ask the question. Just in case though, any other ideas?

If it was due to contamination (by oil?) then surely there would be some evidence on the clutch plate or the gearbox casing?

I assume the engine mounts & the gearbox crossmember are not loose or out of alignment? Are the rubbers properly damping any lateral movement by the engine / gearbox? The only way to check this would be to put the rear axle on stands and run through the gears. And does the juddering cease when the clutch is fully engaged?

Cam I know its unlikely but remember a friend of mine earlier this year who had the juddering problem appear which was worse when warm (as it turns out after a service) and that turned out to be an over-tighten gearbox steady cable, a couple of other possible causes a badly worn crank or badly worn gearbox input shaft although I would have thought oil contamination would have also been present.
One other thing as an outside possibility an iffy propshaft.
As Peetee mentioned a really bad pedal shaft but thats easy to diagnose when using either brake or clutch pedal the other one should not move with it.

Assuming that when he fits a new clutch assembly the
judder disappears each time then logic suggests that
the problem lies in the parts which he DOESN'T change?
I.e. flywheel or gearbox. Not very helpful but I cannot
believe that he has been unlucky enough to have three
faulty clutches. If he is really desparate he could
remove the starter motor, start the car on the handle,
and just about see if the flywheel is running true through
the starter hole!

Thanks guys, I'll pass the advice on....

Further thoughts....if the problem lies in say the relationship
between the flywheel and the crankshaft flange or some
other 'out of true' surface then why would "leaving it for a
few days" improve it??? Is he sure it is clutch judder and
not transmission snatch? Is his rear axle securely fitted!!

every time i have had clutch judder it has always been down to

1) contamination on the clutch material, if you slip the clutch for a short while and it gets better i expect it is oil or other contaminent

2) loose engine mounts or engine tie bar problems


iain

www.turbominor.co.uk

Following on from Willie's post, and if he has access to a dial gauge with magnetic stand, the run out of the flywheel can be checked through the starter "hole" without starting the engine and trying to observe visually. Just fit the gauge, zero, turn the engine on the handle and observe any run out.

Yes, I see your point about the out of true surfaces, I'll let him know, as well as quizzing him about his axle etc. Best thing I can do is drive the car and have a look see (if he agrees!!).

Thanks chaps!

Just an update in case anyone is interested

I spoke to the chap tonight at our local club meeting and passed on your words of wisom and it turns out that he has solved the problem.

When he was restoring the car he replaced the clutch pedal shaft. Being as he is a lathe machinist he made his own replacement, BUT he moved the tab (with the hole in) around by a few degrees to give more opening on the clutch.

The trouble was that when he pressed the clutch down all the way it has been going too far and has been damaging the fingers, which is why after each new clutch they ended up knackered after only a short time.

So, he replaced the pedal shaft with a bought one and has had no problems so far including the trip to the Midland regional rally a short while ago. He is due to go on the 'Roses run' in a couple of weeks so we'll see how he does there, but he seems to think that it's cured.

Just thought I'd let you know!

Ooh, thanks for letting us know Cam. I guess I get the 'Right To Feel Marginally Smug' award. Not bad for a relative beginner (18 months of ownership).

BTW. Just to prove my ineptitude is greater than my skill, where does one access the pedal shaft to lubricate/dismantle etc?

Yes Pete, you have the right to be smug!!

You can access the pedal shaft and clutch linkage from below the car and within the chassis leg (after removing the master cylinder access panel), but to remove the assembly the gearbox cover needs to come off.

I have replaced two now (mine and Jane_B's) and it can be a bit fiddly but it can be done fairly easily. The trouble is that the new shaft assemblies don't come with a pedal so you have to grind your old one off and weld it to the new one (and align it correctly), so if you don't have access to a welder it would become a major headache!