Morris Minor Owners Club

Hello,

I'm sorry to start a new discussion about PCD's but i read something earlier on this forum that sparked the following question in my head...

Is it possible to have new wheel stud holes machined into a wheel so that they will fit onto a Morris?

i.e. on a set of 14" wheels with 4 studs - have an engineering firm drill 4 new holes with the correct offset and PCD in the wheels (resulting in 8 holes in total) and also enlarge the hole in the centre if neccessary.

This maybe utter madness but would appreciate any comments on this idea.

Cheers, George

(I'm just desperate for some wider wheels on my car and I can't find ANY anywhere for what I can afford!)

If the wheels are suitable (enough flat area at the rear of the stud holes) then yes, it's possible.
Here's a thread on another forum about it - http://retrorides.proboards86.com/index ... 113&page=1 - but be careful, there's some seriously dodgy advice in there. TBH, I'd have thought you'd be better off exploring getting them banded, if you can find a firm to do it safely and certify the welds
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i.e. on a set of 14" wheels with 4 studs - have an engineering firm drill 4 new holes with the correct offset and PCD in the wheels (resulting in 8 holes in total) and also enlarge the hole in the centre if neccessary

Yup no problem if the wheel PCD area is flat all the way round. Unfortuntely most wheels have raised areas between the holes, and the machined hole must sit flush against the hub. You must not have holes machined into a raised portion of the PCD area circle.

The only other slight problem, is getting a true centre to scribe out the 101.6mm circle. This needs to the done using a cone shaped centre that fits into the wheel centre hole.

Think I'd be concerned over having a wheel with 8 holes in when the manufactures have only designed it for four. Its possible to do but I don't think I'd do it.
To change the offset on a steel is nigh on impossible, and would best be done via a spacer, but no more than 10mm. An Alloy wheel might give room for change, but again a wheel is designed around safety margins and tampering with this might cause safety issues.
Wheels often come up on Ebay or on here so I'd advise you to buy a set designed for your application.

Seconded - just offering a suggestion (banding), in case the OP wasn't aware that there was such a thing. Again, I wouldn't want to have it done, but...
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Banding, I thought that was now illegal. I have seen that some VW specialists offer re centering a wheel as did Minor Developments, however I have heard differing opinions as to how well these were done.

Me too. However, from the same forum as the last link -

"Some of you may recall that, in the midst of a banded wheels thread, I e-mailed VOSA for their view on the practice. The question I asked was:

I have a query about a specialist modification to steel car wheels over which there is much debate about legality.

The modification involves cutting off the outer part of the steel wheel rim, welding a band of additional steel to the wheel, then welding the outer rim back onto the band which has been inserted. The aim of the modification is to allow the wheel to accept a much wider tyre for increased grip. The welding is usually carried out by qualified welders.

Can you confirm whether there is anything within the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations, or any other legislation, which prohibits the use of wheels which have been modified in this way?


They have now responded as follows:

Dear Mr Hilton

There are no specific regulations in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended (C&U) relating to the type of work you propose.
Regulation 100 of C&U does require that all parts fitted to a vehicle are not likely to cause a danger to the user of the vehicle or other road users. I have attached a copy of Regulation 100.
Additionally, you will need to ensure that the wheels do not protrude from the wheel arches, or that modifications are made to the bodywork of the vehicle to ensure that the wheels do not protrude.

Yours sincerely

name removed
DfT - Transport Technology and Standards

I can't copy Reg 100 because what I've been sent is a scan.

My reading of the above is that banded wheels which are properly welded are legal. Ones with crap welding aren't."

Take it with a pinch of salt, a barrel of the stuff or accept it as true - I just don't know
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In "Practical Classics" magazine a few months ago one of the writers had a set of wheels banded for a merc. They basically said it was perfectly legal as long as the insurance company were happy and the welding was done by a lloyds coded welder.

Just a word of warning re 'coded 'welders, one has to apply once ayear to retain your coded status, which is not cheap to do. So if using a 'coded 'welder ask to see their current certificate. That's not to mean that if you are not coded, then your no good at welding, it just means that you should not be performing this type of modification in the eyes of both the law ( I believe) and the insurance companies.
Just buy the correct wheels in the first place, if you cannot afford them, then just save up until you can.

I'd far rather have the hubs re drilled to a new pcd (done properly) that muck around with wheels.
I thought I'd seen the end of banded wheels 30 odd years ago - had a set on my Minor that I could never get balanced.
There was a place in Scarborough that used to make them - were really popular.
There are wheels out there if you look - Ebay is your friend.

Pete

Just before it becomes 'true', may I just say that I DON"T advocate the practice, any more than I recommend or champion it. OK?
I inherited a pair of bandeds on one of mine - they never balanced either

a

As usual extremely helpful, thanks very much indeed. I think ultimately, although tempting to go for new holes being drilled, I should take Johnathon's advice and save up! (Difficult when trying to pay for university too but I'm sure I will manage it!)
If I get desperate or find the right kind of wheels I might go down the new hole route, if not ebay it is
Thanks again for the advice.
George

I'm sure I've seen multi hole wheels (might have been Wellers or similar?) before, but I'd never want to consider having existing wheels drilled to fit!

Getting a set of wheels drilled to fit is going to be mega expensive.
Its just the sort of easy yet time consuming job an engineering firm will rip you right off for.
Probably not cost effective against a 2nd hand set (if you can find any).

Be tempting to get some 'PCD' adapters made up but then you'd need to get loads done 'group buy' style to get them cheap enough.

Banding is more common than you'd think, theres even a UK company that advertises the service. (google for 'wide wheels' or similar).
Postage would be the killer in this case, unless you live near them.

What type of wheels are you after? - usually minilites and slot mags on ebay from time to time - mostly 13's though.

Pete

It would be pretty much impossible to re-drill steel wheels - but there would be no problem doing this on alloy wheels with solid centre section -such as Minilites/Wolfrace etc where sleeve nuts are used to hold the wheel. The new drilling would obviously need to be spot-on!
Banding steel wheels was of course THE way in the past -but doubt you will get anyone to do it now with product liability etc. So saying - in all my years never heard of anyone having trouble with a banded wheel.

Yea I see your point Dunketh, think I will definitely resort to ebay/freeads on this and just save up. I think the cost of the wheels, petrol to pick up and the machining would equal the cost of some that fit in the first place.

plastic_orange: I'm after anything a bit wider really just for extra grip and to a bit more 'meat' to the look of my car. Ideally some Weller's or Minilights, I've seen alot of 13" on ebay but I think they may look too small on the car and don't want to have really fat tyres to compensate, perhaps I could lower it an inch or two? (I'm sure this is a fairly difficult/major procedure though?!)

Something else I was thinking of was to get a set of wider steels and then put some moondiscs on... I'm trying to go for a 'sympatheically hotrod-ed' look. Front spoiler, spotlights, etc, keeping the morris look but a slightly meatier vibe.

13" can be ok - but not with low profile tyres. 15" with lowish profile are fine. If you convert to Marina discs and back axle then MGF wheels will fit straight on. It's easy enough to lower the Minor slightly - just move the suspension arm on the torsion bar (front) and fit packer spacer (or re-arrange leaves in leaf spring) at rear - although rear usually sags down all be itself!

bmcecosse wrote:Banding steel wheels was of course THE way in the past - but doubt you will get anyone to do it now with product liability etc.

Several firms do offer just this service. Just as an example - http://www.wide-wheels.co.uk/Widewheels.html

No recommendation offered or implied by me.
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Well found !