Piston seal Gunky stuff and before you laugh ....

Post by **Orkney** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:10 am

Ok the bad run of luck is escalating, have put this in mechanical as its slightly more relevant than OT.
Think the v8 in the rangey is almost expired this last week. Tired of the battle of will & wits to keep the thing running without spending anything TBH.
Latest is really really oily plugs so something amiss in a bad way. Consequently i get real starting trouble if i dont use it everyday, yesterday it nearly didnt, 8 hours later it didnt after i stuck on a brand new dizzy I'd found.
Swore at it lots, and put the battery on charge ovrnight - this is a tractor battery, behold this morning it starts so obviously one of the probs is cranking amps - the old original duff was a 650 crank. big tractor no doubt is a lot less.
Anyhow I'm getting sick of cleaning the plugs, I cant adjust the valves because its hydraulic, so reckoning the piston rings are shot.

Years ago used to know an arfur daley runabout car sales type who was handy with a spanner, and he used to regularly use piston seal as a stop gap fix to inprove starting and reduce smoke.
Told me that best to do one cylinder at a time, because it will gunk your plugs until its set.

Now i know its not a long term fix, i just need 4 months of work out of the old beast but would prefer not to spend more time by several amounts getting it running than using it on a daily / weekly basis.
Half the trouble is it doesnt get a good thrashing like it did when on the road, mostly its ticking over in park or 1st.

Any comments/experience with this stuff? remember its a short term fix i need, it's not a road car and i dont have time to rebuild the engine. Oh nor the money neither but those that know me will know that already

I'm seriously considering getting a tube of it, giving it a go and dropping for a new set of plugs to replace the gunkd ones after its in and set. (the way i'm filing the existing plugs every week there wont be much left of them soon anyway)
Just dont want to waste yet more time and the £25 that will cost that i really dont have if i'm just doing the normal and peeing in the wind.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:36 pm

Have you done a compression test?

For all things Rover - check here:

http://www.v-8.org.uk/forum/index.php

Post by **Orkney** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:52 pm

Good point PO no i havnt, dont have a tester nor can borrow one.
Back pressure is seriously nice though once running, non standard heads, exhaust , cam, induction etc and as its the only one of 4 of them ive ever had thats been modified its a job to tell whats what by comparison.
It's scary for the weight, i look at you boys putting v8's in mogs and to a point pondered salvaging the running gear for a ground up pickup build.
Just wouldnt fancy wearing a tornado pilots nappy everytime i popped to the shop

RE the compression, common sense says its fine and its a firing problem - trouble is have been throgh a rake of problems and one day one thing gets it fixed, next day it wont.
Serves me right for not being methodical in diagnosis as in one thing at a time. But fear its a combination of 2 or 3 problems,
Own stupidity has a ot to do with it, if it doesnt start in 3 turns of the starter motor i just carry on hoping for a miracle and hence no doubt oil the plugs. Fact remains though its too much oil going in there, but thn the plugs never normally get up to heat in any one use so again could be one of many things

Cheers for the link will check it out later when get back from the vets .

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:27 pm

Maybe try a different heat range of plugs ? When it's running - is the exhaust a constant blue haze ?

Post by **paulhumphries** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:31 pm

I used it many (24-30) years ago in several cars / bangers.
It SEEMED to work.
Not instantly results - but over a period of time / miles.
Haven't seen anyone selling it for ages though.

Paul Humphries

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:31 am

Well lo & behold got me wondering the same thing Paul, do they still make it ?
Theres a tube on fleabay for £19.99 + £5.99 P&P

Quick google and Halfords have the same product for £7.99 Which means should be about a fiver from the local factors,

pehaps i should get a couple of extras and stickem on fleabay at those prices !

According to some forums it does 'seem' to work, as in there are some good reports of it doing so out there.
Going to give it a whizz, cant afford to really but will get that, a gallon of oil and a filter (maybe a slightly thicker grade) new set of plugs and a good ole tub of wynns supercharge

BMC i did think about the plugs, going to opt for the bog standard which will also be the cheapest, the ones in it are compo ones, so probably not the best thing for the ambient temperature and easy cold starting.

Will phone factors later and make sure they have the piston seal and get it done next day or 3 and report back

Thank goodnes the farm supplies gives me an automatic account with factors or would be able to get it until next month!

Post by **plastic_orange** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:06 am

Before you do anything else (after a compression test) I would make sure that you have good ignition leads, as this is a common reason for non starting and poor running. You must also only use a 20/50 oil - nothing lighter. Rovers don't really suffer from bore wear even at high mileage, but you may have gummed rings due to your type of running. Why not dose it up with redex to clear it out. If you have no real back pressure as you say, the engine must be reasonably healthy, so basic maintenance should see it ok. Does it have good oil pressure?
I used the paste stuff about 30 years ago on a Ford Consul MK 2 (this did have bore wear) to absolutely no effect.

Pete

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:18 am

Cheers Pete,
HT Leads are just dandy, twincore splitfire silicone jobbies, even have a spare set too which i migth rob for the mog.

Had considered the redex route, BUT... thought that might just make it worse if it was to remove any crud that is helping to seal it.

I gave it a shot of injector cleaner last month which seemed to help the general running.

The back pressure is fine, its a janspeed exhaust, 2 x 4-2 then the pair into a big bore stainless.

Dont have oil pressure guage on it but the warning light works and doesnt show a problem.

Might see if i can get a vid clip of it starting & running later.

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:42 am

Forgot - R.E. the oil,
most garages always us a thinner oil here, by 10w at least, bog standard cheapy service oil is either 10-40 or 15-50.
Apparently because by comparison its that much colder here.
Its really got me wondering which oil to get now?

Post by **chickenjohn** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:31 am

"Rovers don't really suffer from bore wear even at high mileage, but you may have gummed rings due to your type of running. Why not dose it up with redex to clear it out. "

I agree with Plastic orange, piston rings may be gummed up and not sealing properly, due to low MPH usage and no decent run.Redex in the heads- also, use an engine flush in the oil for 10 miles before you change it for a heavier grade. That and Redex should get the rings cleaned up and working again from both ends.

If that doesnt work You'll just have to keep cleaning the plugs to start it each time. A pain yes, but as you say its for four months.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:36 am

20/50 is what is recommended ( I use either Duckhams or Halfords depending on availability). The Rover oil pump is a volume pump, not pressure, and can't really pick up oil if it's too thin. There are loads of threads on the V8 site regarding this matter.
If your oil control rings are gummed up, they won't be controlling the oil.
If the engine is not producing a smokescreen, has good oil pressure, doesn't rattle, lifters are quiet and no back pressure it is a healthy unit. Have you made sure the engine breathers are clear?
As you say, it is the type of running that isn't helping it. Once It's cleaned out, I'm sure it will be fine.

Pete

Post by **Spag** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:40 pm

Pull a rocker cover off and see if it's full of lovely black sticky coal tar...

As Orange says, the RV8 doesn't seem to wear bores or rings, they just gum up coz they never get used hard enough to blow the crap out in general use. All that seems to wear out are the cam and timing chain...

Redex, injector cleaner, carb cleaner - anything to reduce the goo in the cylinders sounds good.

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:51 pm

Well did a cold start this morning - AND lost my youtube cherry

got a vid clip of it.
Was a real hard frost last night, this was about 2 hours after daybreak (taken me that long to sus utube ! ) and 18 hours since last started.
Anyway this is cleand plugs 48hrs ago & fully charged battery.
Had no idea it smoked so bad from cold & no wonder the darnd thing oils the plugs, also reckon piston rings might be teh worst of the worries

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn3zD0GpbAc

Post by **plastic_orange** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Didn't look like blue smoke though. Engine sounded ok. Just get these rings un gummed.

Pete

Post by **MarkyB** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:17 pm

Looks OK to me too. Burning oil makes blue smoke.
White smoke is normal when its cold as combustion creates water.
There is some black smoke too but that is running rich probable because the choke or cold start device is working.
Are the plugs the right ones for the engine? it could be they are the wrong heat range.

Post by **MoggyTech** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:27 pm

Exhaust colour looks fine for a cold morning start. A good dose of gum cleaner will most likely work wonders. Engine sounds lively as well.

Post by **Orkney** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:29 pm

Didn't look like blue smoke though

nope twas quite black,
so the consensus would be redex it before anything else?
The cold start injector works fine so yes its rich on start.
Thats a really rough sound to it compared to what it would /should be, really slow on the uptake and as if the timing were out (but i dismiss that as when it does have a good day it sounds super fit)
been out using it fencing all day today, lost count after 25 times is how many times it gets started, moved a bit then off. Cant be good for any engine really

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:50 pm

Just looks like normal vapour from a cold engine start on a cold day! Certainly wasn't blue smoke. I agree with the idea of maybe gummed up rings. Diesel fuel oil works as well (maybe even better) than redex down the bores. Squirt it in and leave it at least overnight. Any chance the cold start injector is sticking open and dribbling in extra fuel while it's running ? But overall it sounds healthy enough. I wouldn't be wasting money on piston seal stuff!

Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:32 pm

Just go for a high speed drive around the fields for an hour or so and see what happens ;)

Post by **Orkney** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:52 pm

Ok so I'll try cleaning the possible gum first. If that fails then maybe the sealer goo (hey a potential saving is the best way to start

)

Would say 100ml of heating oil per pot do the same as diesel? Asking as i have some of that in a can whereas diesel will require syphoning from the dead landy and i HATE the taste of diesel !

Cold injector is fine once its up to temp it knocks off. can prove that by disconnecting it at warm idle and no change.

Just go for a high speed drive around the fields for an hour or so and see what happens

The fuel guage will go down VERY quickly is what would happen