Morris Minor Owners Club

Hey there,
I am new on the board. I am English living in Atlanta U.S. and own a red Morris 1000 Traveler. On Sunday the car wouldn't start. The pump wasn't doing the usual clicking. So I bought a new one an : 'SU' serial number AUF 214. It was located under the rear of the car just in front of the petrol tank.
It is terribly hard to get to. I took free the fuel 'in' line and cinched it. Removed the fuel 'out' line. Then the power wire 'in' from the terminal and the ground wire.
I put the new pump back just the same as the old one and attached it back to the under body of the car with the rubber gasket and bracket on it supplied before.
When I switched the car on the pump worked but made a knocking noise instead of a 'fluttering' noise like the previous pump. It sounded like I I had run a mechanic over and he was knocking with his screwdriver to get out!
I loosened the pump from the body a touch but still the noise.

I think the pump used to be under the bonnet by the battery. Am I right?
I am planning on putting back up there as it is easier to get to if I ever have to whack it one.
So my questions :

1. Why did some one put it at the back of the car?

2. When I put the pump up front the pump will be higher than the fuel tank so fuel has to go against gravity to get there. Does the pump 'suck' it up there?

3. If the knocking noise is from the action of the pump against the car body how do I mount it up front (bracket?) and minimise the knocking.

Thank you all for you assistance in this. I am trying to do this myself as I have just dropped $2300 on the brakes and am a little financially embarrassed at the moment.

Welcome aboard -and well done running a Traveller in Atlanta!
Yes - the pump used to be under the bonnet = high up beside the battery on the left of the car. However - the 'high up' location sometimes seems to cause problems as the pump tries to pull fuel uphill in hot weather - and this became worse as unleaded fuel was introduced. The answer for some is to mount the pump low down - either at the front or back of the car, and your PO has chosen the back. Strictly speaking it should be a slightly different model of pump - a 'pusher' rather than the original 'puller' pump. In practice the original pump usually works fine low down. Is it just the noise that's worrying you - or is the pump not delivering fuel ? Have you checked the pipes are on right way round - it's not pumping air INTO the tank rather than petrol (gas) OUT of the tank ??
$2300 on the brakes !!! Wow.

The original pump location(bolted sideways on to the battery compartment wall) works fine for most owners but, with modern unleaded fuels there is an increased likelihood of fuel vapourisation in very hot weather. Some cars suffer, some don't. The original pump as BMC says was a 'puller' and a pump near the tank should be a' pusher'
you may get away with it but, in a similar excercise on an MG midget where I fitted a pusher in to the engine compartment it gave trouble
for evermore. If you wish to leave the pump at the back then one from a midget or MGB is of the correct type. The early MINI also had a rear mounted pump.

Aye - 'pushers' don't work well when used as 'pullers', but vice versa is ok!
Sorry Mr G - more Latin I know - but you seem to know much about it!

Is my pump a pusher or a puller. How would I find that out?

Yes...$2300 for the brakes floored me but they did put a new master cylinder in and all the cylinders on the wheels. They also had to re-shoe some of the pads.

I don't want to go back to the garage that fixed the brakes because the fella there is a bit brusk to say the least! They work on MG's and I reckon my Moggie is a bit beneath them.

I am fairly mechanical as I restored vintage Vespas so I don't mind getting down and dirty.

Full brake overhaul here in UK - would be £150 (all cylinders + shoes - assumes brake drums are ok for re-use) max for parts, plus about 8 hours labour! Nowhere near your $2300. I suggest you look for somewhere more realistic to do future work -or Do It Yourself!
Pump - if it's same model as the one that came off (does it look the same?) and the old one worked fine, then so should the new one. Likely the old pump just needs the points cleaning - take the top off and there they are. There is an 'on line' workshop manual available to all which explains most DIYable Minor jobs.

Hello Ana,

perhaps you should mention to your 'superior' mechanic that MG stands for Morris Garages and the original model MG was a modified Morris.
Good luck with the pump, and I agree with BMCE, that sounds an extortionate amount for a brake overhaul.

Alec

Hi Ana fuel pump AUF 214 is from a 1098cc MG Midget and is available in positive and negative versions has the right one been supplied, the original correct one is AUA66 when fitted by the battery tray.

Thanks guys for all your help. I do think that I was screwed on the price for the brakes. I know that he used an MG master cylinder on the traveller and the push rod was too short so he welded a bit on. Thankfully the brake cylinders on the wheels are the same. I have found somewhere else in Atlanta that is more familiar with Morris......but as you say......MG did stand for Morris Garage so why didn't he bother to get on the net and source the right part?!!!!
As for the fuel pump....I have the old one which he installed in the rear and the new one that I changed in. I have tested the old and it seems to work....so I have 2 working AUF 214 pumps. I think you can all agree that it is desperately to work on it when it is located near the back axel. I gave myself an almighty bump on my nose from the exhaust bolt!
I know that they often need a thwack from time to time or the points cleaning but the thought of doing it under the car and having petrol pour out all over me....again....is not the most tempting thought.

So I want to re-attach the pump to the rightful place...up front by the battery.....if that gives trouble then I will revert back.

Your thoughts Guys?

Your thoughts Guys?

I wouldn't be happy with the work done by the garage that did your brakes and fuel pump. Welding bits onto a MS pushrod on single circuit brakes is a bad bodge IMHO. The standard Master Cylinder is available and should have been sourced and fitted to keep things standard.

Fuel pump at the rear is also a bad idea, the pump will get filthy due to road debris, and as you have already discovered, it makes maintenace difficult. I would fit the proper pump to the bulkhead battery tray. There is a modified SU pump available that replaces the pump points with an electronic module inside the pump, but the pump still looks like a standard unit.

These electronic pumps don't seem to get a great name - just stick with the original - they usually last for 15/20 years !

There is a modified SU pump available that replaces the pump points with an electronic module inside the pump, but the pump still looks like a standard unit.

As long as its an SU one and not one of the terrible pattern ones often seen on ebay as they often only last a year or so, this is an example.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELECTRIC-FUEL-PUM ... dZViewItem

Yup, my electronic SU is 11 years old and still ticking. You can also buy the kit to modify an old pump.

Do you think this is a good buy? It is an AUA66 :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MORRIS-MINOR-1000 ... dZViewItem

most likely that one will end up fairly expensive - hard to say this early in the auction. It is listed as new/unused however the SU new and recon pumps usually have a different seal tape with the SU logo - that one has black tape.

If a pump has sat unused for many many years, chances are that it will need to be opened up to clean the points. With that in mind it's not much more effort to get a cheaper second hand one and then DIY fit some new points.

As regards electronic switch pumps vs the old fashioned type - neither seem very reliable when produced new these days (I've heard of both types failing quite early). My preference would be to use an old SU pump with new points in it.

I have a spare pump- I'm in New Jersey, I wonder if I could arrange a package! Free apart from postage. I'll test it tonight, but it worked last time I tested (I test my spares regularly in case I need to fit them...) I'd be more than happy to help!

I am considering converting to an electronic fuel pump. I have found a reputable make which specs out at 2-4 psi. Anyone have thoughts on if this is too much (1958 2-door w/948) for the carb needle & seat? Will a pressure regulator be required? Thanks!

Think it will be fine - but the original 'ticking' pump is part of the charm of the car - and they do last a long time. Also - modern pumps are not usually designed to suck petrol uphill - they generally need a flooded suction, so there may be fuel feed problems unless you fit the pump under the car at the rear - near the tank outlet.

Thanks, bmcecosse. I enjoy the charm of the ticking, but the charm of breaking down in traffic has worn off.

Oh just clean the points and it will be good for another 10 years. But maybe the breaking down was due to fuel vapourisation in the upswept pipe to the pump ? Some have reported this problem - and have cured it by mounting the pump low down either at the back - or at the front but down on the engine bay floor. The pumps are not great at sucking - but with flooded suction they will pump up to the carb no problem.