Rattling front suspension

[DaveC]

Hi folks

I have had this rattling for some time now, in fact I can't remember a time when I did not have it.

We have some pretty poor roads here, like cattle grid rutted type roads, but not quite as bad as a cattle grid, and several unmade roads.

I replaced the front bushes with polybushes in the hopes it would cure it, but to no avail. I have replaced the front wheel bearings, and the track rod ends. Checked the trunnions and replaced the N/S lower trunnion as the fulcrum pin and bush were worn out. I still get this rattle when I hit a hole, back over the step into the garage etc, and can replicate it if I kick the wheels back or forward. Both sides seem to do it. I will investigate closer tomorrow, but it seems to be front to back movement at the fulcrum pins at the lower link. I can't detect any movement, but I think that this is where the noise is coming from. Is this normal?

Any ideas or comments welcome

[overider]

Could it be the exhaust rattling or hitting the body as it passes through the bulkhead? If it is close to the body when you hit a bump it might be hitting the body.

Or is it the top trunnions hitting the inner wing?(worn dampers) Have you still got bump stops? good luck

[jonathon]

Look for oversizing of the tie bar bolt holes due to corrosion, also the shank on the tie bar before the thread end, this can often be greatly reduced due to corrosion. Check also the play in the tie bar link.
Make sure that the lever arm dampers are really tight and locked in place.
Obvious nut and bolt check of the entire torsion bar,bottom arm assembly. Good luck

[DaveC]

O/Rider yes checked the exhaust, did have a prob but fixed that and no not the bump stop stuff
Hi Jon
when I did the polybush thing I didnt do the tie bar rubber bushes as I thought they looked too fat to fit. I'll get the badger clamps on the lower trunnoin link and give the wheel a kicking and see if the noise stops. I must admit a lot of my driving is on un-made roads, and I just hope that it is not too much for the car. I would hate to have sell the car cos it's not up to the job .

The N/S front damper has just also started leaking oil as well , this coupled with the wheel bearing self destructing today (I think that the garage fitted the thrust side the wrong way round a few months ago ) I am a bit fed up with with things generally....

[bmcecosse]

It's likely to be the swivel threads on the suspension uprights (is it less after fresh greasing?) or the track rods and/or the steering rack damper. Try greasing the rack.
The car will be 'up to it' - you just need to maintain it in top condition.

[alainmoran]

One thing to check might be the pin that bolts onto the rear wishbone arm and goes through the tie bar.

Recently while replacing my bushes I found that this had been fitted finger-tight by the previous owner, and had loosened so that there was a 15 degree play in it when you pulled it out of the tie-bar. Most scary

[DaveC]

Thanks for those suggestions folks. I have found the O/S is as you say the tiebar into the clevis bolt. I suspect a new tie bar/clevis assembly is required.

The N/S is definately fore and aft movement of the lower link on the lower link fulcrum pin. I think I'll put thicker grease in. These parts are brand new! You can't detect the movement, but I clamped the link to the rear wishbone with Mole grips and the noise stopped.

I have got a pair of new front dampers from the scrapyard, so I shall fit them soon.

The replaced wheel bearing is now OK so that's one thing I suppose.

Hopefully that'll be it for a while, they say bad luck comes in 3's

[MoggyTech]

If the kingpin and trunnion is brand new and there is any play, I would contact the supplier and ask for a replacement assembly, thicker grease will only mask the problem I'm afraid. Hassle doing the job all over again I know, but you can't risk wheel collapse for an hour or so work.

If the lower trunnion is moving lateraly along the lower fulcrum pin, and not slopping on the kingpin thread, this would suggest that the two wishbone halfs are not pinching up onto the thrust washers that go either side of the fulcrum pin. Check that the wishbone halfs are meeting each other, and that the thrust washers are fitted the correct way round.

It sounds like the fulcrum pin shoulders are either machined too close together, and/or the thrust washers are not thick enough.

[alainmoran]

Which way around is the right way for the thrust washers?

I've always fitted them with the shoulders facing outwards ... have I got them the wrong way around?

[MoggyTech]

Which way around is the right way for the thrust washers?

I've always fitted them with the shoulders facing outwards ... have I got them the wrong way around?

No you've got them fitted correctly. If this really is lateral play and the wishbone halfs are meeting each other, you could measure the gap between wishbone and thrust washer face, and fit shim washers to take up the slack. Leave a couple of thou play for suspension movement.

[aupickup]

or maaybe a case of yet more not so good parts

[MoggyTech]

or maaybe a case of yet more not so good parts

This is a major concern, and appears to be getting worse in some cases. I had a new clutch relay shaft rattle and ended up putting the old one back on and it's fine. Also got a banjo with a new master cylinder, and the banjo machining was a joke. I could understand trim parts being sub-standard, but for safety critical areas like suspension and brakes, it's not really on.

[aupickup]

yes i could not agree more on this
especially safty related items
it really is about time that quality and not quantity with the suppliers was addressed

i am getting to the stage that i can not trust repro fittings, bleed nipples, suspension parts etc i do not need to go on

i look out on ebay for any new old stock and buy them

[bmcecosse]

'Thicker grease' would only be used as an aid to diagnosis - it's NOT a cure!! If the tie rod bolt is loose - drill out to next size and use a larger tight fitting high tensile bolt - Allen Cap screw is ideal, and stronger too!

[jonathon]

Dennis, we have chatted before and its a two pronged problem.
'Most' minor owners will not spend the required amount to make sure that only quality products are offered by the trade. This is a fact.
As soon as the trade report back to manufacturers that the customer will not spend the money, then either the manufacturer withdraws the product or has to cut corners in order to produce something that will sell unfortunately this results in a fall in quality.
I have argued with several main parts suppliers that they should stop selling poor quality cheap parts and only supply tried and tested good ones. For as long as cheap parts are available ,then the average minor owner will always fall for the trap.
Up until the last 3 years or so the problems have mainly been with panels etc, with the exception in my view of some modifications. However the trend is now spreading into safety critical areas, which puts us all in a very delicate position.
You will probably find that garages/bodyshops might start to specify that only parts that they approve of ,on grounds of quality, will be used by them. Remember if you have a cheap clutch fitted and it fails ,as it will do, then the garage who fitted it will be charged with re doing the job. The suppliers or manufacturers will possibly replace the item but wash their hands of any labour liability.
This problem of poor parts is not specific to Minors its very much across the board.

[aupickup]

yes jonathon points taken on board

but brake parts surely not
i would much rather pay a bit more for these parts and no that they are in good order

[DaveC]

If the tie rod bolt is loose - drill out to next size and use a larger tight fitting high tensile bolt - Allen Cap screw is ideal, and stronger too!

will do