Morris Minor Owners Club

Pity we cann't "name & shame" as I've a juicy one to list.

Whilst my Minor is off the road I bought a Land Rover that was for sale on eBay from a proper dealer / big garage / bodyshop company.
Nearly home (120 miles) the exhaust fell off.
Back home I had a quick look and then acccessed last years MOT fail list.
Basically beyond economic repair as severe chassis corrosion, as well as masses of other items like leaking exhaust, duff brakes, shocks, lights,excessive smoke, emmisions etc.
It had therefore been SORN since last fail.
Taking the list out to the vehicle, other then a couple of unimportant small welded plates, NONE of the other work it failed on last year has been repaired - yet it came with 12 months MOT today !
I was lucky to get home as the gearbox crossmember is so corroded that the gearbox is almost falling out.
Looks like the MOT certificate was issue without it even being tested.
That means the test station could also be involved as brake / emmisions data is not accessable by them but automatically included from the test results.
Only way they can therefore have issue a pass is if they tested another vehicle of same type.
Phone calls are due tomorrow to Trading Standards, VOSA & Police.
I doubt I'll get anywhere but even though it has a full test there is now way it should be on the road without repair that would cost more than it's worth.
I've been well & truely ripped off - and cann't afford it.

Paul Humphries

Ask for a refund prior to taking it further - you may be lucky.

Pete

plastic_orange wrote:Ask for a refund prior to taking it further - you may be lucky.

Pete

Problem is
(a) I cann't tackle confrontations and when it's such a blatent crime (it's nothing else when a danagerous vehicle is passed off deliberatley by a garage and another provides a false MOT) the seller is hardly going to be pleasant to me.
(b) they are 120 miles away and the vehicle isn't capalbe of moving more than a few yards so I can park it off the road.

"At the end of the day" I'm victim of a crime.
Even if I got a refund who's to say they will live the straight and narrow in the future or will continue to do the same sort of thing to others.
I was lucky.
What about the non mechanically minded who buy from a garage on trust ?.
Worse still is the Land Rover is dangerous and I woudn't have driven it if I'd seen some of he problems.
Servo isn't working - which I found out when braking hard. In a panic I put all my weight on the pedal - and it swerved into the path of another vehicle as it looks like one side of front brake are faulty. This was one of the fail aspects not corrected.
The front chassis has been misaligned / repaired badly so the springs don't site properly. Again a previous uncorrected fail. It creates some very strange handling and on tight turns one front wheel "skips".
The gearbox crossmember is so rotten that the gearbox weight is starting to rip it from the remains of the chassis.

I don't think the seller deserves a chance to repay me and avoid the concequences.
If I do it the correct way and report to appropriate agencies then they will pursue a refund as part of any actions so that is route I'm taking.

Just wish I'd bought another Minor to run around instead

Paul Humphries

How did you pay Paul? Reckon that you stand a good chance of money back if its for certain the MOT is dodgy - the ministry dont take kindly to that kind of thing and it would be in the sellers interest to refund you ASAP.
I believe you can do a small claims court summons online for about £30 - sure worth a try - just the formality of that (because it cant be ignored) might get you your refund lickety spit.
Oh and not being pro ebay or anything - but same could have happened from an ad in auto trader / trade it / local paper etc and at least with ebay you have for all the good it will do at least some method of reporting the seller.
Commiserations on the whole thing in general

I would write them a letter putting forward your concerns, and ask that they refund the money and pick up the vehicle in a week. If they don't, then you have recourse to other measures already mentioned.
Make sure you send the letter recorded delivery, and keep copies of correspondence, and of the original advert.
A result is getting your dosh back - retribution can follow later.

Pete

get intouch with vosa NOW tell tehm then take him and the MOT station to teh cleaners it has been done and it needs to be done asap

Don't give him a week to collect the vehicle that could well be seen as an unreasonable timeframe in the courts. Give him a fortnight (actually give a specific time and date) and give a sooner date for him to contact you to tell you when you are getting your refund (make that one week)+

After a lot of phone calls I've got it sorted.

Trading Standard helpful but VOSA limited what they can do.
In the end I rang MOT test station and spoke to owner.
He then spoke to person who physically tested and they admited that they had issued a pass when loads of probelms. Seems seller is known to tester so took him on promise that fault would have been corrected and no idea it was then going to be sold.
Tester is probably going to be sacked and owner said leave it with him as he would take up with seller about getting his business involved with fraud.
In the end had a phone call from sellers mother.
He been taken into hospital so cann't talk to me himself !
After a pleasant little conversation I said that I reckoned it had a value but not that which I paid - more like £250.
She then said she could send me a cheque for £400 towards repairs.
I await the post but am happy with result.
The £400 can go towards a new chassis and I'll fit the 2.5 na engine I've got "in stock" instead of the smokey MOT fail 2.25.
Mother says V5 already sent off so I should be getting one in my name soon.
VOSA say it's not possible to cancel a MOT unless inspected and found dangerous so even though it'll be rechassised it'll still have a valid MOT !

For once things have turned out Ok for me

Paul Humphries

A good result, but I think I would rather have the cash back and get rid of the vehicle.

Pete

In the end had a phone call from sellers mother.
He been taken into hospital so can't talk to me himself !

you believe that ???
Youve had a verbal admission of guilt and unless its by accident would have been unadmissible evidence in court recording a telephone call - do you actually think you'll get a 'good' cheque for that amount?
Sorry Paul but your half way there and about to be fleeced again IMHO.
Take what youve got and go to the local cop shop, follow it up with a small claims jobby.
As far as going to the police is concerned until the outcome is settled in court verbal with no evidence or not is good enough - you'll be lucky to get a cheque at all, if you do chances are it will bounce. Go to cop shop in person, tell them the tale, if people dont the it will just happen again.
Regardless of your time and trouble and the fact that it has incurred you cost do everyone else a favour and go the whole hog on this. These sort of people never seem to get the blame when they pass a dodgy motor and it results in a fatality, but thats where often it begins...

It's up to you Paul - I'm not wanting to put any pressure on, but i'd agree with the above.
The trick of getting mum to phone means that you got the info about admitting a dodgy deal 'second hand'. If he'd admitted it to you himself he could get in a lot of trouble, so this sounds more like a criminal who knows the legal system

If you'd wanted a DIY project you'd have bought one, but you bought a fully MOT'd vehicle from what should have been a reputable seller.

The Land rover I bought last year was in a shocking state an had an MOT that was obviously fraudulent. However the previous owner had not even noticed and was lucky that he changed his plans and re-sold the car. He had been planning to take it on an offroading holiday , but the chassis would have fallen apart!
This kind of thing must happen a lot - I was lucky that I could repair it, and I'd been expecting a project vehicle - others would pay a high price!

As the MOT on mine was 6 months old it was too much hassle to follow it up, (impossible to proove it it was the MOT station at fault or if the last but one owner had taken a different vehicle to the MOT).

If i was you, I'd let the previous owner collect it (as it's too dangerous to drive) after you've received a full refund. If you want to follow up with charges, then get a fresh MOT - with a long list of fail points.

Then I'd buy what you wanted in the first place (a roadworthy 4x4 with MOT)

If you do get that cheque ask your bank for a special presentation. (actually go to the counter) that way you will know for sure whether its a good cheque or not in a few days.

Accept nothing less than cash - otherwise you will never see it. And check which 'hospital' so you can go and visit - with a nice bunch of flowers!!
But in the end - it is 'buyer beware' - why did you take the vehicle in this condition? You should have walked away. And to re-chassis a Landy is not a one-day job - and frankly hardly worth doing unless it's a pre 1973 with free Road Tax for the rest of it's life.

The situation in Holland is that when your vehicle is tested it is always possible that a vehicle is retested by an official at random.
If anything is not in order i.e. should have failed than the garage must pay for the repairs so that vehicle is good for its M.O.T.
In this case a big bill for the garage and offcourse if it happens more than once the garage could lose its licence to do M.O.T.

I hope that everything works out well for Paul!!

I hope the Landrover I am going to win ?!?! from Practical Classics is in a better shape!!!

Regards Jan

bmcecosse wrote: And to re-chassis a Landy is not a one-day job - and frankly hardly worth doing unless it's a pre 1973 with free Road Tax for the rest of it's life.

I've rechassised several in past so not a problem.
A mate is using me as an incentive to sort his out at same time so we are going to a supplier who likes cash and expect a decent deal on two at same time (last one was £500 for a SWB galv'd for a Lightweight whereas their list price was just over £600 + vat).
The mate says we can do them both at same time so the bulk of the work is done with the many sets of hands of friends / other Land Rover enthusaist who are willing to help out.

As far as road tax is concerned that can all change if the Conservative gain power at next election. Part of their polices is to reintroduce the rolling tax exemption they originally created to come into line with the rest of Europe yet labour has frozen at 1973.

Paul Humphries

All I can say after reading this is always view a car yourself before you buy it - you would have noticed all the faults and walked away. I will be very surprised if the cheque clears into your account.

picky wrote:All I can say after reading this is always view a car yourself before you buy it - you would have noticed all the faults and walked away. I will be very surprised if the cheque clears into your account.

Visually the land Rover looked OK - scruffy but nothing unexpected.
OK I accept I made a mistake and was too trusting but it was 100 miles away when the exhaust fell off and made me then start querying the previous history that I then examined the aspects I ASSUMED would be OK as they are MOT related.

The cheque arrived this morning and was banked promptly.
My bank say's it will be clear by 3 working days so Wednesday will see if it's honoured.

Paul Humphries.

OK I accept I made a mistake and was too trusting

Don't feel too bad about that. Having some trust in human nature and at least trusting in a 'valid' MOT is not wrong - it's the dodgy people that are in the wrong. The majority of people are honest, so it's always sad to come across a scammer (albeit more much likely on ebay)
My advice is always to view a car before buying if you can, or if it is more money than you can afford to loose, then don't buy unseen!

Needless to say I often ignore my own advice - and so do many others. If I hadn't bought unseen I wouldn't be driving around in a Minor Pick Up that was worth every penny... (And I wouldn't have wasated time effort and money fixing a Vectra that had a fraudulent advert).

I still think you'd have been better off buying my 69 Landy ;-)

rayofleamington wrote:

I still think you'd have been better off buying my 69 Landy ;-)

I don't doubt that one minute.

I was swayed by a friend who said if I got a 4x4 he's buy it off me for what I paid when MOT ran out. He's been after one for his farm in France but they go for silly money over there.
Seeing I just wanted something to run around in whilst I repaired my Minor it made sence to have one rather than a Fiesta or similar as I'd a buyer ready for when I was finished with it.
The idea was then to get a Suzuki SJ but I soon found they are rare and expensive in good condition with even heaps (I looks at a couple for £500) fetching decent amounts.
I was checking out eBay and saw the Land Rover with a "Buy Now" price.
It had only just been listed and said it came with full MOT and just needed TLC.
The photo's showed a normal old, slightly tatty vehicle plus someone had already asked a question that the seller had replyed with the chassis was good and didn't need any welding.
I took the risk - and was conned.
Hindsight is is all well and good but doesn't stop you making the mistake in the first place

Paul Humphries

I would have taken them to the cleaners - but wouldn't have allowed them to have the vehicle back until it had been inspected as part of the case.

Good luck with it Paul - sounds like you've got a restoration on your hands!

Matt