Disc brakes - need new calipers - question

Post by **badfelafel** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:32 am

Hi all

Had a brake problem with my Minor and garage says need new calipers at front o/s - they have asked me to source some calipers.

They were originally fitted by a well known company who are very expensive for replacements...

Does anybody know if I can fit any other calipers instead - eg Marina ones from another less expensive company that I know and trust?

thx all!

Post by **jonathon** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:46 am

are they Ford or Ital. Why not use your local motor factor, and exchange the caliper. Marina ? Ford around £30 for a good make. How much do the 'expensive company' want ?.

Post by **badfelafel** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:53 am

they want £65+vat each +£10 delivery

i note another company want £40+del for shiny marina items

Post by **jonathon** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:59 am

Ouch!!, use your local motor factor then.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:31 pm

Just put new seals and pistons in the calipers you have - they will have some sort of marking on them - Lockheed or similar.
In fact - just free them off (provided they are not leaking) - this has to be done regularly on Mini disc brakes unless the car is being used very regularly - to keep the pistons moving.

Post by **badfelafel** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:13 pm

ok so what should i order?? anyone know:

this is what the caliper says on it

Girling
Mk3 142FMK (perhaps FNK) 64327547

cheers everybody!

The kit (according to the seller) is from a well known expensive Morris Minor specialist - what do they use?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:10 pm

Barry - if they are free to turn when cold - there is nothing wrong with the caliper. I am almost certain it's the master cylinder holding the pressure up - and dragging the brake after it has been used. I really don't think you need new calipers! Experiment - jack front wheels up and apply brake hard - can they be turned easily by hand after releasing the brake ? If not - now ease the bleed nipple on one caliper - there should be a wee spurt of fluid - now can the wheels be turned by hand ?
Also - you could ask that expensive specialist (or the seller ) if they modified the master cylinder when they fitted the discs!

Post by **jonathon** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:15 pm

You say that the problem is on the front o/s caliper, do we take it that the n/s is still working ok. If so then it will not be the master cylinder. If the brakes have worked fine up until the test or garage report then clearly the issue is with the o/s caliper only. Has the kit just been fitted, because it is possible that the caliper has been assembled incorrectly, its easy to fit a n/s half to an o/s half, which looks fine from the outside but in effect this blocks off the return which will give the symptoms that you describe. On another matter just saying ''the expensive specialist' achieves nothing, just name them as you are not showing a grievance against them, but seem to be implying that because they are expensive its possibly their issue. Just ask them which caliper it is, then check that the assembly of the problematic caliper is correct then go see your local motor factor for a seal kit or exchange unit.

Post by **badfelafel** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:56 pm

i thought we had a rule here that we couldnt name people? thats why i have avoided naming them

ironically, i also suspect most people know who i mean by the expensive specialist!

it wasnt my intention to apportion any blame to them: i certainly wouldnt put it down to being their problem - it was fitted several years ago.

but i do want to know if i can get an appropriate part from anywhere else, and some of the people on the board might know what this specialist fits as part of its disc brake conversion kit

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:21 am

You cannot name them if linked to a complaint, as I believe. You are not complaining so why not mention them, rather than describe their pricing policy, this helps no one. Surely if you phone/email them and ask they will help you with information. Failing this your kit is either Ford or Ital based so just go and see your local motor factor who may have a replacement on the shelf, or at least a seal kit.

Post by **badfelafel** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:21 am

Its a kit from between 2000-2005 from Charles Ware (or so the seller claimed when I bought the car!)

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:16 am

so it will be more than likely a Marina/Ital based kit. I believe ESM do reasonably priced repair kits for these. Do first check that the caliper has been assembled correctly though.

Post by **chickenjohn** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:40 am

There are two sets of dust covers and seals for each calliper- are they two piston callipers? Still, its a cheap re-build kit. Out of interest do the seals on this kit sit in a groove in the bore or the calliper or sit in a groove in the piston?

Post by **JimK** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:02 am

I believe there is one piston on each side of the caliper. It certainly doesn't seem to be a floating calliper type.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:22 am

My take on it was that 'expensive' = 'good/high quality/reliable' - surely that's the case.
The fault I believe IS with the master cylinder - since both wheels are reported to be free when the brakes have not been used for a while. I then think one caliper(n/s) is slightly stiff and so is not being held on by the slight backpressure, and the other (o/s) caliper is nice and free - and IS being held ON by the slight back pressure. Different amounts of disc run-out may come into it too. It's always difficult to diagnose from a distance - and unfortunately I really have too many problems with house and own car to get involved at the moment! Hence -I suggested a simple test which should prove something, and may save loads of cash being wasted!

Post by **badfelafel** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:12 am

my problem is the car is at the garage, and everytime they look it jumps £50, so its probably worth just getting the parts in and having them fitted!

Post by **Welung666** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:16 pm

badfelafel, try these guys, they can identify and supply most brake calipers from partial numbers.

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:30 pm

Badfelafel wrote

"my Minor and garage says need new calipers at front o/s - they have asked me to source some calipers".

I understand this as meaning that there is a problem only with the o/s caliper. You have not mentioned whether the n/s caliper is experiencing the same problem. If its ok then the problem cannot be the m/c as the n/s is releasing. Or when you say calipers , do you mean two or just one?.

I'm not trying to be pedantic over this , but we need a clear definition of the problem to avoid confusion and mis advice.

Post by **badfelafel** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:38 pm

OK

Here's the problem in a nutshell...

Car was slowing down after use, which I thought was the engine. The garage have looked and told me the cause is a front caliper on one side. They replaced the hose, but that hasn't cured it. They have said that they could have a look at the caliper and replace the seals, but the labour on that would cost as much as a replacement caliper, so perhaps I should source a caliper.

Thanks for your help everybody!

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:36 pm

Good, so the problem is just the o/s caliper, so you can discount the idea that its the m/c, if the n/s is returning ok. Did they replace the hose because it was damaged, as it rather a strange thing to do if the problem has presented itself as either a seized caliper or one which has been assembled incorrectly. I presume that they were able to bleed the caliper correctly after fitting the new hose. I'd just get then to remove the caliper and press the pedal gently to see how much travel is available( do not pop out the piston). Check to see if the piston returns under its own steam. If not then use a G clamp to return the piston to its start position, and try again. Whilst the caliper is off spin the disc and see if there is much run out, this would normally be felt , by the oscillation of the brake pedal.If you try these checks and you have a seized caliper then order a kit or just buy a replacement, as the garage might well charge more in labour to recon the caliper,than the cost of a new replacement.
Good luck

Morris Minor Owners Club

Disc brakes - need new calipers - question

Disc brakes - need new calipers - question

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