Morris Minor Owners Club

I have been dismantling my 948cc Moggy's engine, and have found plenty of wear and a few strange issues. I've already addressed the rocker assembly on a separate topic... This covers everything else.
So, starting at the top and working down. I have removed, at this point, pistons 2,3 and 4, one being rather harder to remove due to locking tab issues (getting a chisel today). I shall go through the problems with each piston in order, and I think in the end consensus will be complete replacement:
Piston 2 is fitted with the same rings as 4, but different ones than 3. It is fitted with three thicker ones (technical terms escape my mind), and then an assembly of two thin ones sandwiching a corrugated one, all surrounding a perforated one. The top ring is in two separate halves. So far, so good, I think. But the ring channel divider between the top ring channel and the adjacent one is snapped off at one point, and a piece about two centimetres long has fallen off. Replacement needed, think I... Also, there are tiny vertical abrasions, thousands, all up the sides. Not good, think I once more. Incidentally, the gudgeons of 2 and 4 both have a coppery stain , perfect width and straightness, about half an inch from one edge. 3 is unblemished.
Piston 3 has different rings: Three thicker ones above once more, and then the fourth is different- it is a thick, hollowed-out ring containing a spring. The piston sides are badly scored, really badly, so that one will go, I think.
Piston 4 is the same ring setup as 2, and has the most carbon deposit on the crown (deposit varies widely between crowns, with 1 half covered, 2 merely darkened without any particular covering, 3 scratched, and 4 completely covered). This one, too, has many vertical scratches, all of them tiny but thousands of them. The sides are stained, but I don't think this matters, does it?
More on piston 1 later today.
The bores don't seem worn- there is no superficial wear and tear, and I am going to check for tapering later. Actually, 1 is slightly worn at the top, but not in a constant taper- just as if someone pulled a file at a 45 degree angle across the edge two or three times, just enough to create a dent in the lip. It doesn't extend into the bore at all, just a lip dent.
The camshaft doesn't seem worn. What's the best way to tell? The cams have slight discolouration in places, brown, and some of the peaks look like a topographical map, lots of circles going down the slope surrounding the main peak, but only when closely observed. The final part of the camshaft, just before it leaves the block, that fits inside the first bearing is blackened at the outer edge.
The camshaft bearings are pitted, ridged, lined and generally dead.
I have to go out for lunch now, but I will come back and continue to list the wear. What I would love would be advice on what is bad and what doesn't matter, which bits need replacing, what rings I should use on the pistons (since I think they probably should all be the same, right?) special techniques for repairing pieces etc. More stuff later![/url]

Piston 2 is fitted with the same rings as 4, but different ones than 3. It is fitted with three thicker ones (technical terms escape my mind),
They're the ones that seal the piston against the bore to make it tight for compression IIRC

and then an assembly of two thin ones sandwiching a corrugated one, all surrounding a perforated one.
The oil scraper ring I believe

The top ring is in two separate halves. So far, so good, I think.
err, not sure that should be the case, It should be a complete (except for a few thou) circle

But the ring channel divider between the top ring channel and the adjacent one is snapped off at one point, and a piece about two centimetres long has fallen off. Replacement needed, think I... Also, there are tiny vertical abrasions, thousands, all up the sides.
Sounds like the piston broke...are those abrasions on the bore or only the pistons?

Incidentally, the gudgeons of 2 and 4 both have a coppery stain , perfect width and straightness, about half an inch from one edge. 3 is unblemished.
Is that wear, lack of oil to the top end? Someone else'll have to comment on that, but generally, copper bits on bearing surfaces like that mean the white metal has worn off.
Piston 3 has different rings: Three thicker ones above once more, and then the fourth is different- it is a thick, hollowed-out ring containing a spring.
that's just a different type of oil scraper ring
The piston sides are badly scored, really badly, so that one will go, I think.

The sides are stained, but I don't think this matters, does it?
Stains don't matter too much, but damage isn;t a good thing, they should be quite smooth and no pockmarks or serious wear.

More on piston 1 later today.

The camshaft doesn't seem worn. What's the best way to tell? The cams have slight discolouration in places, brown, and some of the peaks look like a topographical map, lots of circles going down the slope surrounding the main peak, but only when closely observed. The final part of the camshaft, just before it leaves the block, that fits inside the first bearing is blackened at the outer edge.
The camshaft bearings are pitted, ridged, lined and generally dead.
I have to go out for lunch now, but I will come back and continue to list the wear. What I would love would be advice on what is bad and what doesn't matter, which bits need replacing, what rings I should use on the pistons (since I think they probably should all be the same, right?) special techniques for repairing pieces etc. More stuff later

any chance of some piston pics? staining and the odd scuff aren't going to damage the pistons, but you need to watch for them damaging the bores. How many miles has this done? It sounds quite worn, especially the cam and pits aren't good, has it been run without oil or with few oil changes?.

Pics would help. Sounds like a lot of work is needed, but I'd bow to better judgement as to the worst bits.

Andrew

It very definitely sound like you need new pistons and rings - all of them. You will need to decide if it's better to pull the engine out and have it rebored to take oversize pistons - doing this will make it as new - but obviously is more work and costs more money! The camshaft wear is as normal - if possible you should try to source a camshaft from a 1098 engine - it's a whole lot better, (more lift + timing) and in any case a full new set of 8 cam followers will be required. I'm sure you will get to the big-ends just shortly. But then you must drop the ecntre main bearing cap - nd tell us (or show us what you find in there. If it's bad (and I suspect it will be) then it IS engine out to have the crankshaft reground. Alternatively - have you any hope of sourcing a complete 1098 engine for the car - and abandon this very much bodged up 948 engine !

I'd second that, sounds like a real Heinz 57 engine.

Andrew

Right, so I'm going to continue where I left off, and then answer questions. Thank you for everything so far, very useful indeed!
Right. Big ends all worn, need replacing, the lot of them. The other bearings on the conrod seem fine, incidentally. The tappets are indented on the bottoms, plus nicked and scratched variously... I'll be replacing those. Erm, I think that's it so far. Oh, and pushrods are fine. But then that's not unexpected...

The top ring is in two separate halves. So far, so good, I think.
err, not sure that should be the case, It should be a complete (except for a few thou) circle

Well, both 2 and 4 have the same thing, and since 3 is already different I assumed that was fine for that type of piston.
The bores have no visible abrasions, but as I said I haven't yet checked for taper (haven't got the requisite tools).
Oh, valves. Taking delivery in a few days of a valve compressor, so I'll be able to check. The valve seats (I think that's what they're called) look a little unhealthy, though, rough and pitted and very miscoloured.
I'll try for pictures, but bear with me as I'm not great with this thing...

if possible you should try to source a camshaft from a 1098 engine

Will it fit without changing the engine? I'll be replacing the followers anyway, so that would be good!
The centre main bearing cap? Will do. Probably a nasty sight! In any event, I don't see why I couldn't go a-looking for a nice 1098 to suit my needs... I could even do a 1275, I suppose, nice bit of extra power...If I have the engine out, I know I'll end up removing the gearbox, I just know. I'm addicted to getting oily... But it's been making funny noises at me, so maybe that wouldn't be so bad anyway. How easy is it to fit a Toyota 5-speed, or something like that?..
Anyway, more on that later. I'm going to go and remove the centre main bearing cap, and I have a feeling the engine'll be coming out... Thanks again for everything so far, and keep it coming!

to check the bores, use a ring and check the gap (i.e. the missing bit of the ring) with a feeler guage. You can check lower down, near the bottom (i.e. an unworn bit) then at 2 or 3 stages up the bore.

Never heard of a 2 piece piston ring, do you mean 2 semi circles of ring?

Doesn't sound like a very healthy engine. Has the oil ever been changed

are the bores scratched or damaged?

Good luck and keep us posted.

Where are you?

Andrew

I suspect some bodging has been done with rings - perhaps using aftermarket 'Cords' rings to make up the ring sets. Bits of piston 'land' - the bit between the rings - missing means new pistons are essential. And for me - it would be better to rebore and fit oversize pistons. What can be done here is to bore out to +65 thou and fit standard size Mini pistons (sometimes available quite cheaply) - giving an engine of 998 cc. Would need 998/1098 Mini/Minor conrods to do this.

All right, I have photos up. Just visit this link; it should work. http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z265/jackkelleher/
I'm afraid that despite high hopes of removing the engine, I have not. The weather intervened quite spectacularly with a selection of storms, and there is not enough space inside the garage to work (I do all my work just outside...). So that will be a job for today.
I might rebore, yes, that sounds like a good idea. Although actually (to answer your question, Andrew) the bores aren't at all damaged! Strange, considering the pistons.
To answer your other question, Andrew, I'm in New Jersey.. And yes, two semicircles of ring. The pictures are, like I said, on that link... Hope they're helpful. If you want any other particular photos, just ask! Happy to take more.

This engine seems to be a bit of a mix and match! The shot of the head with the temperature sensor - tells me that is not a 948 head - what casting number is showing on the top ? And the inlet valves look more like 1098 valves too. The bores look too big for a 948 and they don't look too bad really - and the camshaft front bearing is serviceable - don't worry about it. the camshaft looks fine - the cam followers should be renewed ideally but I have seen worse! the shot down the bore shows a big-end journal which looks ok! At least it's not heavily scored. Is there an engine number showing anywhere on the block ? Or an aluminum plate riveted to the side of the block - or are the numbers '950' cast into the block ? The timing sprocket you show is from a much later Mini engine and is designed to be used with a rubber tensioner block assembly - without that it will be very noisy. More pics please - we need to decide what engine this really is !!
Edit - just looked again at your picture 'the block' - am I right in thinking the engine number (little alloy plate held with 2 rivets) starts with '10' ? In which case - this IS a 1098 engine. Does the gearbox have a ribbed outer casing - or is it smooth ?

Looked also at the front rad mount metalwork - that's NOTHING - there's much worse out there. That's an easy repair - just trim it off and weld on a new strip of steel.

The new photos are up, the ones you requested! It would seem that the engine is indeed a 1098.... Same url as before.

Great pictures! Yes it's a 1098 engine - with a 1098 ribbed gearbox so that's all good news. The head is standard 1098 head. Someone has fitted the Mini timing gears which are supposed to be used with a tensioner which is not fitted - and cannot be fitted (well not easily) to that front plate. So - you need new pistons, bearing shells (but I need to see that centre main - both shaft (pic from below) and shell in the cap you remove) , cam followers, rocker shaft, timing gears and seal and chain - and gaskets. The rockers you can clean up with a carborundum stone (use with olive oil). You need to decide if the old pistons are standard size - pics of the piston crowns will help here. There should be a 'grade' number inside a diamond shape if they are standard size. If oversize - it will say 020/030/040 - but i bet they are standard. Question is - does the cost of all this exceed the cost of any replacement engine you can lay your hands on where you are ???? Or do you have any easy way of shipping an engine over from the UK ?

It's a 1098? That's good, I suppose... It's not hard to get an engine shipped out here, but the cost is rather high for something as heavy as an engine, I'd imagine! It's nigh-on impossible to find an actual A series engine out here, unaccompanied by a car. Usually it has half a ton of valuable metal surrounding it- Moggies at least double their value on coming to the US...
Just checked the pistons, 2 and 4 are definitely standard, so I'd imagine the others are the same, though there's no readable inscription on 1 and 3 merely says "AE 20337 STD KWM ---> (That last thing being an arrow) which makes no discernible sense whatsoever. Ah well.
I'll have a go at those rockers...
The centre main is struggling with me at the moment, refusing to come undone... Any tips? I've pulled back the locking tab fully, but the damn thing won't budge. I put my whole weight in and all I've got to show for it is a slice on my thumb where I slipped off the ratchet and ran my hand along a piece of metal!

Defo new pistons and shells, second great pictures!

Looks like damage due to dirty oil? plenty of scoring on those shells, but BMC's right, at least the journals are good.

You need to take a good, detailed look at the bores to make sure there's been no damage to them due to the ring and piston damage.

You're going to need a fair few new bits.

I think the key to building this as a long term engine is to make sure it's been really well cleaned, including (especially!) oilways and then lubricated during assembly

Andrew

The "what's this" photo appears to be the sensor for an electrical temperature gauge.

I agree the radiator panel just needs a plain strip of steel welding on in place of the bottom couple of inches.

and 3 merely says "AE 20337 STD KWM ---> (That last thing being an arrow) which makes no discernible sense whatsoever

the letters "STD" are short for "standard" which refers to the bore size. I think it is safe to assume that all the pistons are the same diameter.

BMC, I now have the centre main off but the light is too poor to take good photos. I'm not too good a judge, perhaps, but I will say that the area isn't too worn. Slightly, perhaps, but not much. Anyway, photos tomorrow so people can judge for themselves. Thanks for the compliments on the pictures, everyone- photography is another hobby of mine! Always nice to know you're not doing too badly.
I thought temperature gauge, too. Where would that go on the dash? Ancillary unit? I may as well put it back in action (though I think I'm going to need a new one).
Finally removed the engine block, I'm midway through the clutch and then it's onto the flywheel, eventual aim the crankshaft! I should have it out by the end of tomorrow, if I work efficiently. More pictures of the rest of it will come later, I'll be needing advice on wear, I'm guessing.
Dirty oil? Well, I don't know if the car's ever had an oil change, to be honest! I've had the car two years, in that time I've only done about a hundred miles, so I certainly haven't thought to change it. The car was apparently restored five years ago, but if it happened at all it was certainly one of the "gentler" restorations ever performed!
I'll be looking into those bores as soon as the crankshaft's out, more space to work.

You're going to need a fair few new bits.

I'll say! The cost is starting to accumulate quite nicely...

I think the key to building this as a long term engine is to make sure it's been really well cleaned, including (especially!) oilways and then lubricated during assembly

Definitely. The grime on this thing's pretty thick, I forsee some pretty heavy cleaning...

You're doing well. Keep at it. The Minor never had a temperature gauge as standard -that head is probably off another car that did have temperature gauge (Mini 997 Cooper or Austin/Morris 1100 range car). It won't be connected on your car unless a gauge has been fitted aftermarket. Still interested to see pics of the whole car (start a blog ?) and the name of the Company who took such good care during the 'restoration'. The little arrows on the pistons are probably meant to point to the front. Are there any parts suppliers for these cars near you - or do you need to get a care package from the UK ?

What I've been doing so far is using ESM and Bull Motif- oh, and MGM. A care package? I don't rightly know what you mean by that, I'm afraid! Parts suppliers are not around out here...
A blog sounds like a good idea... My brother just turned thirteen so he got his car, Land Rover Series 3 Stage 1 V8 (tell you what, there's not much common blood between these two cars ), first thing he did was create a blog. I suppose I could follow his lead (he's the more computer-minded of the two of us).
Aftermarket head, eh? All right. It's not connected, no, and the way it's been beaten up suggests someone wanted it to stay that way. It's a hex bolt but is now round, and the contact (as you can see, I suppose) is completely bent... Hm.
I'll start a blog, put the url in a post on here sometime this week, probably within today or tomorrow. Plenty of pictures all round...

I use and recommend http://www.livejournal.com/