Respray/paint question. Availability?

[adrianhill]

My first post, apologies if I have got the wrong topic or inadvertantly breached the etiquette for this forum.

I have a '64 1098 2-door saloon, colour: "Old English White". I mention the colour because I have recently done some repair work on the offside door, replacing the lower half due to rust. I'm planning on doing a bit more work on the old lady (just minor stuff, no pun intended... the front grille needs to be repainted too), then a respray.

I'm looking to source some of the "Old English White" cellulose paint, or if that is no longer available, am looking for some advice on respraying costs etc. I understand that a large proportion of the respraying cost comes from the work needed to prepare for spraying, which I am very happy to do myself ofc.

Any advice much appreciated. Many thanks,


Adrian

PS: Apologies if I do not reply to any posts until early next week. I will be away this weekend.

[les]

Cellulose paint is not easy to get now, something that has not had much coverage on this forum for some reason. I managed to get some recently in Forest gate, London. 5ltrs cost around £85. It seems it is sold while 'stocks last', but no later than end of '07, at least that is what I'm hearing. There has been talk of clubs being able to get supplies, but again no reliable information forthcoming. Esm also seem able to get it at the moment.

[steve4063]

my local place has it at £20 a litre he said no-one can actually get it anymore but he bought loads of it when he knew they werew going to ban it.

the only way you'll get it is to see if someone has still got some stock in. don't go to a big pl,ace as they won't let you have any.

try a small franchise or local place jawal paints are the place i use they have a couple of brances about if there's one near you try them

" 5ltrs cost around £85." wow i thought £20 was wayyyyy expensive.
glad i don't live in london.

the other alternative is 2 pack but you need loads of specialist equipment to use that stuff VERY dangerous which is why they've decided to ban that also very soon.
the way they're going is water based which i've heard good reviews about.
one of the classic car mags run an article about it and actually said it was quite good.
the trouble with it is you need to heat dry it.
ie in an oven or use a heater that is what the mag used a portable gas heater and it worked well but took a long time to dry and as anyone knows if its liquid and its taking a long time runs apear.

hope that helps a bit, it might pay you to shop around some sprayers and ask them how much if u can't get any celly.

[chickenjohn]

I thin k its not been mentioned much on the forum because no-one knows for certain whats going to happen.

[les]

Surely £85 for 5ltrs is better than £20 for 1!

[Willie]

LES, you are the only one who is awake! My local supplier (London) still
sells it and it does cost about £20 per litre but,of course, a litre of neat
Cellulose goes an awful long way. When I mentioned that it appeared that Cellulose would not be obtainable for long he gave a contemptuous
snort!!.

[Willie]

Adrian, yes, most of the cost of a respray is for the time spend on proper
preparation, the actual spraying is relatively easy. If you intend to pay
an expert to do the actual spraying then you should consult them as to what they require in the preparation stage if you wish to do it.

[Alec]

Hello all,

the Federation of Historic Vehicle Clubs reports that there is an appeal against the total ban of cellulose paints, and that it is strongly felt that there will be an allowance for the sale on a limited basis. However, as I understand, there will probably be a time that it will not be available as the appeal process grinds its way onward.

Alec

[jonathon]

Water based paint is not dried by heat, is relies on the evapotration of the water by passage of air.A booth needs its air changing upto 3 times a minute. Heat can help but the blowers alone for our booth are £3K, yet another outlay for us to absorb, let alone modyfiying our guns etc.

[Willie]

Jonathon, is it true that the water based paints are susceptible to damage from bird droppings?

[chickenjohn]

Mercedes were one of the first companies to go waterbased- the result- Mercs since 1997 rust badly, the paint sometimes just falling off the car.

[les]

I thought mercedes would have had galvanized panels to discourage rust along with other German cars,

[jonathon]

From what I'm told ,yes there were problems with early waterbased paint. These have been developed 'out' and the colours are now more stable. One problem with the constant changing of paint type and colour choice are the 'tinters'. Basically your 'trafalgar blue' for example is probably 99% white paint with tinters added to create the actual colour. As new colours are created so , the original tinters are dropped and replaced by sustitites which when retro mixed to create more traditional mixes, we have mis matches of colour even though the % is the same, hence yet more time needs to be taken, or in some cases you will never match the original colour. We have just sprayed a roof of a traveller we rebuilt 5 years ago. We ordered the exact same colour mix, it looked perfect outside on a match plate, but when we unmasked the car in the booth, it seemed a completely different colour tone. After an irrate call to our supplier , he said have you viewed the car in sunlight, sure enough outside it was a perfect match. Push it back inside under artificial light and hey presto different again. You can see this phenomenon out on the street at night as the street lights will show up any differences in the colour tinters, on a re painted car.
Water based paint is also very diferent to paint. Normally with celly the more layers you apply the better the potential finish, with2K you only really need to spray one header coat then two wet to achieve the recommended paint thickness, but waterbased is one header and one wet, anymore and it will 'flow' off the car.

[glyna2006]

cellulose paint is still available in small quantities as is 1k paint which matches quite well with cell. paint most of the outletts down our way will still mix either,however they are limited to small quanrtities thats what i've been told...glyn

[kennattrass]

I have recently re sprayed my moggy with celly paint. When I bought it had a long conversation with the retailer. He said that celly will still be available in old colours.But if you want to buy it you need to show that you are involved in classic car restoration and the quantities will be limited.BUT what he did say was that the restriction only applies to cars or (quote ) anything with wheels.So he said that if ,after the restiction comes in, I as a non commercial buyer,was to ask for a litre of cellulose to repaint my boat or rooftop box,greenhouse or anything else that sounded reasonable he would have no reason not to supply me.The information he has is that the paint will still be available,but that no modern colours will be able to be mixed,because the codes will not be available from the car makers. He said that I have no need to bother about it I will always be able to get my Morris black. So we shall wait and see . He also said that there is a non air feed mask that filters out the overspray of 2k paint so that it is safe to use so long as your not using it as a full time job.For the once a years or so use he states that its fine to use 2k. Not to sure about that since the danger comes from the cyanide in the hardner. But I know a paint sprayer and he uses 2k on guvvy jobs at his home,and he's still alive .Mind his hair has a greenish tint to it cheers ken

[jonathon]

The problem isn't that celly will not be available (not produced), but that paint retailers will just not stock it as the demand does not warrant the investment for them. We as a business can register as a classic/vintage car specialist, and have access to virtually unlimited supply ( but only if the stockists, stock it.)
2K should not be used in residential areas. If you use a mask yourself, just have a thought for your neighbours who do not. I do not see why we as a business,have to use industry standard booths, filters and emmision tax etc, etc , when Jo public can paint the same products without a care. I for one would report anyone using 2K paint in a residential area, its plain stupid and shows a complete disregard for children, adults , pets,wildlife and the environment.

[8009STEVE]

for one would report anyone using 2K paint in a residential area, its plain stupid and shows a complete disregard for children, adults , pets,wildlife and the environment.

Well said. When 2k first came out, I was working at a spray shop. The guv asked where Pete was and was told in the spray booth. He opened the door for 10-15 seconds. Pete was spraying 2k and the guv was off work for 3 days.

[adrianhill]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I am going to try to source a couple of litres of Old English White cellulose, if I possibly can (if anyone knows of a supplier near the Swindon area, I would be grateful if they could PM me the supplier details as my old place does not stock it any more).

Thanks again, the information is very much appreciated!

[chickenjohn]

If you're thinking of re-spraying the whole car, then it might be a good idea to get more than 2 litres- say get 4 or 5 litres. You can then put on lots of coats of paint, and when dry can wet flat for a really good finish (although white will hide imperfections very well).

I would also get the same no of litres of filler primer from the same source as the top coat to ensure compatabillity and dont forget to get the thinners- normal for the primer and top coat (top gloss) for the top coat. Get some extra normal cellulose thinners to wash your spray gun with etc.

Cellulose thinners contains Toluene and Xylene which are classified as harmful and highly flammable. Its safer than 2-pac, but still buy a suitable mask from the same place as you get the paint.

[millerman]

My paint factor tells me a 2-pack paint has been developed which is safe to use ie no cyanide type compounds.
True or false?
If true sounds ideal!