Other engines...

Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:13 pm

Im idly wondering about what other engines I could put in the trav.

as I understand it, the K series fits, but needs major machining to get a rwd gearbox on the back, so im looking at pinto/zetec engines because you can bolt a type 9 straight to them (so im lead to believe) Has anyone put a zetec in a minor before? i know someone whop is doing it to a midget so I assume its possible!

Post by **Packedup** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:22 pm

I'm sure I've seen something somewhere about either the Lada or FSO square FIAT copies using a K series in the 90s. They're rwd, and the pic I seem to recall seeing of the engine bay shows it the right way round to power the back end.

Quite how easy it might be to find a rwd K series and box from an ex-Eastern block manufacturer though...

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:22 pm

Matt, the K does need machining to change to rwd but its nothing excessive, the main jobs which will need a machine shop are the removal of the power steering pulley from the bottom pulley and machining the crank to accept the Ford spigot bush. We have now set up a dedicated tool to do this with the engine whole and crank in situe.
The Ford motors will require this work too. We were looking at the SE Zetec which is a Yamaha based unit, this is light weight and easily tunable. Companies such as Burton already do the mods to create an rwd version. The rwd versions of the K series (factory spec) were initially used in the Maestro van, and were available in CZ mainly.
However with the machining cost to achieve rwd from us being in the region of £65, it may not be worth the trouble of tracking them down.
One of our customers has fitted a zetec, I'll see if he can send some pics.

Post by **dunketh** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:42 pm

iirc the Zetec blocks will already take the RWD spigot bush without any work, they'll also take the sierra (or capri, I dont remember) fly and clutch combo and then bolt up nicely to a Type 9 box.

Thats how the RWD ford boys do them. Its all parts-bin stuff with no custom parts really needed. (although a water rail that moves the stat to the side of the engine and re-reoutes pipework is highly recomended)

Personally I'd like to do an xflow. Fuel economy would be comparable to the 1275 lump but you've got lots of cheap tuning options.
Having worked on the FWD kent in the mk1 XR2s I can safely say they're no more difficult to work on or live with than the A series.

Only trouble with both these is their physical size. Looking at detailed dimensions courtesy of the 'zetec inside' website it seems they'll just fit in wth no radiator... so what happens with the rad?

Have JLH got anything in the pipeline wrt Zetec or other Ford based conversions?

However with the machining cost to achieve rwd from us being in the region of £65

Thats pitifully cheap. The only trouble is getting an engine to you and back again.

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:58 pm

We do, but until we finalise a deal maybe next week, I'd rather not comment, only to say that it will be very exciting!!

Post by **6thdude** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:47 pm

Matt,
You need to take into consideration the size of your planned engine, the K-series being not much bigger than the A-series or Fiat Twin cam. The Ford lumps are bigger and heaver, especially the pinto consisting of a cast iron block and head, the zetec has aluminium head bolted to a cast iron block so isn't quiet as bad but still fair heavy. The K-series being top choice in this department as its ally aluminium. There was a pinto engined minor on ebay a while back... it looked pretty ugly the amount of bulkhead the guy ad to cut out!
Personally I wouldn't go for the Fiat, I found it was really difficult to get parts for and it drank fuel with twin webbers.

Jim

Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:35 pm

I know about the weight issue, basically im looking at alternatives in an attempt to get my current engine to behave! :s

Post by **6thdude** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 pm

Haha, leave a couple of copies of street machine on the back seat.... or better still the autotrader!

Post by **Matt** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:45 pm

lol, I have threatened it with ebay and its slowly improving!

Post by **JimK** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:56 pm

I reckon a 1.25 Zetec would be a great engine for a Minor. All alloy (I think), revvy motor putting out about 75bhp.

I think my absolute ideal non-BMC motor would be the 1.7 Zetec from the Racing Puma

Post by **dunketh** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:40 pm

The 1.25 is a great engine but not quite man enough imho.

I took a mk4 fesy 1.25 's' engined car to derbyshire and loaded up with gear and two people it really struggled around the peaks.
They're quick on a flat road, foot down sending the revs through the roof but other than that Id want something beefier give the choice and expense.

Dunno how the 1.4 version compares.

btw, I thought all zetecs were all alloy?
btw2, the non SE zetecs (mondeo etc) are compatible with CVH bits so you can turbo em with the guts of an RST.

Post by **Packedup** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:31 pm

JimK wrote:I reckon a 1.25 Zetec would be a great engine for a Minor. All alloy (I think), revvy motor putting out about 75bhp.

Wow, a 1250 75 hp engine. That's such a leap forwards from a 1275 75hp engine, who'd have though technology would have ever allowed it..? ;)

Post by **JimK** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:49 pm

Packedup wrote:Wow, a 1250 75 hp engine. That's such a leap forwards from a 1275 75hp engine, who'd have though technology would have ever allowed it..? ;)

I know what you mean, but I think the advances are reflected in this:
my Fiesta engine would do 50mpg at 75mph, and never dropped below 40mpg in any circumstances in the seven years I drove it.
It ran with absolute and complete reliability with no failures of any kind for 140k miles in that seven years. Never, ever failed to start. Nothing ever went wrong.

What eventually killed the car was the same thing that kills many Minors: rust in important places.

Post by **Packedup** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:22 am

jonathon wrote:The rwd versions of the K series (factory spec) were initially used in the Maestro van, and were available in CZ mainly.

But the Maestro was fwd, surely? I'm intrigued now, having already been somewhat curious over the rwd K Lada or FSO (the boxy Lada and FSO 125 look the same to me, probably because they effectively are!). Never actually heard of a K Maestro either, if you've got any info it mgiht be interesting for the Unofficial Austin Rover site

I know what you mean, but I think the advances are reflected in this:
my Fiesta engine would do 50mpg at 75mph, and never dropped below 40mpg in any circumstances in the seven years I drove it.
It ran with absolute and complete reliability with no failures of any kind for 140k miles in that seven years. Never, ever failed to start. Nothing ever went wrong.

The Fester surely has better aerodynamics though, which helps. Though EFi is probably the main reason for better mpg, imagine an A series with a decent EFi (something multiport and mappable, not the nasty factory attempts of the 90s). And I still think the A series can live a very long time if maintained properly - And that doesn't mean forking out ever couple of years for an expensive rubber band!

You could, of course, fit a 16v head to an A series too...

It just never fails to amaze me that in this day and age of peak oil worries and major technological steps forward, cars still don't seem to be actually a great deal more frugal or powerful compared to old points and carb ones. Though I suppose that's down to emissions regulations, car bloat and silly multivalve engines that need revving to high C to make any noticeable power ;)

Post by **6thdude** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:01 am

Drunketh, I think you will probably find that there aren't many engines man enough for our Derbyshire peaks!

Petrol does only have a limited amount of energy associated with it. As you say, reductions in aerodynamic drag and better oils lubricating tighter tolerances will play a large part in improving fuel economy. You will never get the internal combustion engine to be anywhere near 100% efficient. The best way to improve fuel bills it to walk:) Shame it's 20 miles to work then

The Duratec engine is all aluminium, the Zetec engines (rather than zetec spec'd cars) have iron blocks. I think the engine was name zetec before the marketing people thought it sounded like a good name for a spec of car like S/SE.

Post by **dunketh** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:19 am

Drunketh, I think you will probably find that there aren't many engines man enough for our Derbyshire peaks!

Alcohol consumption? Me? Surely not...

I think the only thing man enough to be fair was a large V8 rangie driven by the guy who drove the truck in 'Duel'. Whenever I left the campsite he seemed to be behind me waiting to overtake uphill and dissappear in the thick fog.