Tie bar <-> suspension arm

[JimK]

I've just fitted polyurethane eyebolt bushes and rebuilt the suspension. It went swimmingly, right up to when I wanted to reattach the tie bars.

The bushes have material outside the eyebolt whereas the old ones didn't, and so the front arm is a little further forward than it was before. This means I can't get the hole in the tie bar end to line up with the bracket on the suspension arm.

How can I get it to fit? Do I simply have to apply violence? Drop the bolt in from the top and brake sharply? ;-)

[bmcecosse]

Slacken off the front fixing nut until the tie-bar moves back far enough to get the bolt in (note - must be high tensile bolt for this) - then tighten the nut again. In any case - braking would pull the wheel back and make the situation worse - not better!

[JimK]

Which front fixing nut? The tie bar or the torsion bar pin?

The front suspension arm is too far forward, meaning the tie bar is now too long. Braking would pull the suspension arm back and make the bracket and tiebar holes line up.

I'm not advocating driving with the tiebar unconnected...

[bmcecosse]

Ahh - it's too far forward ! Hmm - I see what you mean then but you can't drive it without the bolt in place - some judicious levering I think !! It's not something I have ever had a problem with - the suspension arm should be quite 'springy' in a fore and aft direction. I seem to think it's a matter of sliding it in to the clevis from the side - with some help from a soft headed hammer!

[rayofleamington]

the suspension arm shouldn't be further forward just because you changed the eyebolt rubbers - it 'should sit with an even gap each side of the eyebolt.
Therefore either it was too far back beforehand or it's not sitting evenly at the moment.
It is possible to get alignment problems if the torsion bar has stuck on its splines (rusted in place). The suspension arms should be able to slide on the splines and if not this can prevent you from getting an even spacing each side of the eyebolt.

If you just need to get the torsion bar a bit shorter, for whichever reason, you could first try tightening the nut - this will squash the rubbers a bit more and pull the bar forward so the holes are a bit closer to each other. If that doesn't work, then maybe there is something seriously wrong.

For small misalignment problems of the tie-bar hole to the suspension arm bracket/bolt hole then you can use a selection of screwdrivers to manouvre the holes into line and push the bolt into the hole from the other side.

[JimK]

the suspension arm shouldn't be further forward just because you changed the eyebolt rubbers - it 'should sit with an even gap each side of the eyebolt.

There was no bush material proud of the front edge of the eyebolt. One rubber bush was shot and the metalastic one just didn't have anything sticking out forwards. The polybushes are symmetrical.

Therefore either it was too far back beforehand or it's not sitting evenly at the moment.

Too far back I think. When I assembled the suspension with the new bushes there was a gap between the arms, and the bushes were compressed as I tightened the arm bolts.

It is possible to get alignment problems if the torsion bar has stuck on its splines (rusted in place). The suspension arms should be able to slide on the splines and if not this can prevent you from getting an even spacing each side of the eyebolt.

I couldn't persuade the front torsion bar lever to shift but the rear one moved easily.
I need to look again anyway as the passenger side seems reluctant to move.

If you just need to get the torsion bar a bit shorter, for whichever reason, you could first try tightening the nut - this will squash the rubbers a bit more and pull the bar forward so the holes are a bit closer to each other. If that doesn't work, then maybe there is something seriously wrong.

The holes overlap a little, just not enough to get the bolt in. But, I'll be replacing the tiebar bushes too and the new ones look bigger. And I don't have any split pins...

For small misalignment problems of the tie-bar hole to the suspension arm bracket/bolt hole then you can use a selection of screwdrivers to manouvre the holes into line and push the bolt into the hole from the other side.

This looks like a possiblity. Shame it's howling and pelting outside...

[RogerRust]

I fitted the tie bar at the front first and tightened the nut untill it looked about right. Then levered and tapped the back end to get the bolt to drop in. The poly bushes for the tie bar are quite hard and look a bit bigger than the rubber ones.

Just a thought how about pouring some hot water over the bushes to soften them up while you fit the other end of the rod or even soaking them in hot water . It is all said and done very cold out there today.

[jonathon]

If you tighten up the front nut on the tiebar,leave the locking bolt off the suspension arms(the one between the eyebolt and the tiebar bracket) keep the tie bar loosebut in position then it should be possible to push the tie bar into position, or to allow the use of a tapered pin to centralise the holes(screwdriver will do). You must remember to check the caster angle, as tightening the tiebar end nut too much can corrupt this angle,as to can leaving it too loose. Adjustable tiebars are available to set this up accurately,also they make it very easy to overcome the problem you are encountering.
Obviously checks need to be made regarding the bushes and condition of both suspension arms. If the arm was okay before ,but with a different bush, then the eyebolt determines where the suspension arms sit (fore and aft) so the problem must be the size of the front bush only. You could check that there isn't any undue wear on the inside face of the thin suspension arm where it fits upto the eyebolt.

[rayofleamington]

I couldn't persuade the front torsion bar lever to shift but the rear one moved easily.

ah - well that's better than nothing but as you tighten the large nut on the other side of the crossmember it is likely to pull the torsion bar backwards again. The effect of this will be to pull the front suspenstion arms backwards if there is no chance they will slide on the splines.
On a few Minors with this kind of problem I've had to stand the torsion bar upright and soak the splines with penetrating fluid for a few days (standing upright allows a biggerr pool of release fluid).
After a few days they could be freed up using a large hammer and some heavy blows.

[I had to do that last year when rebuilding the 54 saloon - just remember to keep your other hand far enough out of the way when swinging a big hammer - I hit my thumb, and whilst swearing rather loudly I dropped the torsion bar onto my Traveller! (double ouch, but at least the Traveller got away better than my thumb )

Jonathon is right about the effect on castor angle, however as I've never had any way to check it, and no decent way to adjust it, i've always ignored it

[jonathon]

Ray, I can see how the torsion bar will pull the thick suspension arm back.But the front thin arm is determined by the eyebolt. I can only see that the thick arm could be out of alignment but the front one will be the same. If the torsion bar/thick arm is further back than normal and everything tightly fitted then It would make it easier to fit the tiebar.But the front arm would need to bend by quite a bit to achieve this ?

[JimK]

Thanks for the collected advice so far.

I have replaced the eyebolt bushes both sides but so far I haven't touched the front end of the tiebars due to having no split pins. Those bushings are in rather better nick (it's the ones on the Trav that are perished...).

If my suspension arms have moved forwards by about 3mm and the tiebar hasn't moved, how much will the castor have changed and in which direction? I doubt it's changed so much that I'd notice.

[jonathon]

Your arms can only move forward if the eyebolt has moved,the bush is wider or the arms are bent. Not sure as to the actual degree of angle change but 3mm is significant. As Ray says, he has 'ignored' the caster angle for a coulpe of reason's,this is very commonplace with minors and only adds to the fact that you are not getting the best from your car. Full geomerty checks can be done by Minor specialists or some of the main alignment/tyre centers. It is well worth the money and a good set up will be immediately evident when you drive. your car

[bmcecosse]

But you would indeed need the adjustable tie-bars to be able to do much about this. If the car runs 'true' hands off and the steering is not stupidly heavy then the castor angle will be acceptable. It may be here that the chassis member has been replacd at some time and is not in exactly the right place - maybe a bit too far forward. I suggest you slacken everything off - including the eyebolt nut - and then attempt to locate the tie-bar into the clevis - and then start tightening it all up in stages. Also have a look to see if someone has by any chance put some packing washers in the front tie bar - this could be making it 'longer' than is necessary. Don't worry for now about split pins - they are not necessary if you use self locking nuts - and if needed they can always be fitted later - if worried stick a bit of welding wire through and twist the ends together.

[jonathon]

AHH, that's why they were designed BM

[bmcecosse]

Yes - well I do have them on my Mini (which has lots of negative camber) - these things tend to be 'adjusted' once - and then never again!

[jonathon]

Yep , but atleast you can adjust them for optimum set up,

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - and I have !

[jonathon]

Hallelujah !!!

[les]

I'm coming in a bit late on this one, but do you think that the tie bar bracket has been replaced at some time and been welded in the wrong position, hence the fitting of those flangeless bushes? I've just fitted brackets to a chassis I'm doing and needed a lot of jigging up to get them right.

[rayofleamington]

Well, based on experience of quite a few none-adjustable tie bars, I've had to use the tapered pin (big posidrive screwdriver) and a 'good old heave' on quite a few of them. Some of those are likely to be caused by the abundant amount of weld repairs each car had had in its life! Others may have been from mild accident damage (one car even had a bent suspension arm - the thick one, not the pressed one!)