Morris Minor Owners Club

Next question. I'm planning to respray my Traveller using Cellulose paint (I know it's being phased out). I want to do a reasonable job that isn't going to need doing again in the foreseeable future, but it doesn't have to be up to show-winning standard (Fenchurch will be an everyday working vehicle). I've got permission to use a big garage with an industrial compressor for as long as I need (the main drawbacks of the place are that it's a bit dirty, unheated, and not brilliantly lit). I can borrow a spraygun/water separator/hoses etc. I've sprayed small areas of cars with aerosol cans, and I've sprayed a building with emulsion (so I have some feel for how to hold and move the gun), but I've never sprayed a whole car before. I realise it's going to take a while and I might wind up sanding back and trying again if I make a mess of it. I'm hoping to get away with just flatting the old paint down, filling the odd small dent, and sanding the rust spots back to bare metal - I don't want to remove all the old paint if I can avoid it. The main reason for wanting to do it myself is cost.

I think I'm probably going to change the colour to a dark blue (from Almond Green), but I haven't decided yet whether to go with Trafalgar Blue or the darker Blue Royale.

So what do I need to buy, and how much of it? So far on my shopping list I have:
Filter mask and filters.
Top coat.
Anti-bloom thinners.
Paint strainers AKA filter papers.
Panel wipe.
Tack rags.
Filler (plastic padding).
Etch primer.
Primer filler AKA high-build primer.
Grey primer.
Wet and dry paper of various grades.
Elbow grease.

What have I missed? How much of each will I need?

A good heat source is the main ommission. Cellulose really needs heat to give a good finish. Even if you just warm the paint and put a heat lamp on the car to warm the steel this will help a great deal. Once sprayed re apply the heat. A couple or more ceramic/ infa red units would do, you can hire them. Don't use parrafin or diesel heaters as they cause moisture and the fumes will cause wax spots in the paint.
I would only etch the areas where you bare metal, and even then apply in very thin coats,3 passes with the gun would be okay, so you only need 1/4 of a liter plus its thinners(not the same as for the primer)
If the paint job you have now is a good surface then just Scotch brite the whole car,(use the red pads, they can be bought in pacs of 10 and are much easier to use in dificult areas. The finish given with these is similar to you wet flatting, but its both quicker and less intrusive to areas of bare steel(i.e water/bare=rust.
I assume you will be using APS1 or the like for primer. If its only an external paint job then 4 liters will be more than enough. This will then need to be guide coated so you will need an aerosol of black paint to dust over the surface, one tin will do it.
Flat back with 800 wet and dry, using plenty of clean warm water with a little soap in to prevent clogging the paper. Make sure this is really dry(use the heat lamps) blow off any water in traps such as panel joins. Panel wipe the whole car,wiping on with one hand and immeadiately off with the other, dont use too much or leave on the surface.
Heat the paint and car, and fire away with the top coat, very light first coat the 4 wet coats should see the job done, then allow to dry under the heat lamps, Leave around a week before flatting back and polishing. Top coat I'd buy 4 liters and 4 of thinners, mix the first few coats 50/50 then up the paint content to 60/40 for the remainder.
Oh you will also need masking tape and paper, do not be tempted to use newspaper as the oils and inks can cause wax spots. Remove the masking before the paint is fully dry to avoid peeling the paint off with it. One more thing, drain the compressor a few times to remove sludge, check the cleanliness of the air against a piece of white cloth , outside of the area in which you are to spray, if there is any oil do not start. Gun pressure should be between 4-5psi but depends on your spray action, experiment on a bit of paper or the like to see which suits you. Buy yourself a paintspraying suit, the white hooded paper type, not expensive but cuts down contamination.
Think thats it, but I'm bound to think of something else in the morning.

Good luck

Thanks a lot, that's extremely helpful Sorting out some electric heaters won't be difficult now I know I need them. I have quite a lot of sheets of A1 and A3 drafting paper I was thinking of using for masking off large areas. I'm not sure what APS1 means... The stuff they sell at http://www.paints4u.com/ is called "Cellulose EP21 Grey Primer."

The etch-primer comes in 450ml aerosol cans, and I was thinking it might be easiest to just get one of those for etching the bits I'm going to have to take back to bare metal. Do you think it might be worth putting on a coat of Zinc 182 anti-rust primer as well as the etch primer on those areas? If yes, which one should go on first? Does the same etch-primer work for both steel and the aluminium panels on the Traveller?

Alex, aerosol etch can cause some problems, namely a spiders edge where the paint stops and bare metal begins. I'd be tempted to just use the zinc primer then your primer.
APS1 was what I used to use many years ago, it was a good high build cellulose primer, but may well have been superceeded by now. We now use a 2K primer under cellulose as it will not sink into any filler or previous paint as the cellulose does.
If you can try and buy a small quantity of etch and thinners and spray with the gun, this can be used on both the bare areas and the alloy panels. However if the alloy panels are already painted just scotch and prime, obviously if you need to flat down imperfections in the current top coat then use a flatting block and wet 800 paper.

jonathon wrote: APS1 was what I used to use many years ago, it was a good high build cellulose primer, but may well have been superceeded by now.

Still around, still a damn good primer

Jonathon, did you mean to say more thinner in the final colour coats?

I always finished with a couple of thinner coats "wet on wet" to encourage the paint to flow out nicely.

Hi John, normally I'd recommend the more thinners in the final coats but we find that by increasing the colour rather than thinners it gives a better coverage. I was reluctant to suggest the thinned last coats as I'm unsure (no distrespect to Alex ) as to his painting experience. I'm sure that if Alex is confident in his abilities then this would not, pose a problem
Glad that APS1 is still about, sprayed loads with it.
Had to buy a new DeVillbis gravity GTI gun today. My old suction gun gave up the ghost. Must say ,I now prefer the gravity method. I love the annodised blue finish too!!!

jonathon wrote: Had to buy a new DeVillbis gravity GTI gun today. My old suction gun gave up the ghost. Must say ,I now prefer the gravity method. I love the annodised blue finish too!!!

Hi Jonathon,

I'm envious of the new paint gun. They are so pretty nowadays

I keep thinking about going over to gravity feed (always used suction guns) mainly because I would waste less activated paint - yes I know, I'm tight

It always look so unwieldly with the pot balanced on top of the gun but I suppose I'd get used to it.

Exactly my thoughts John, they just don't look right do they. However my first go with one was spraying an Alfa Guilletta rag top. I started with my normal gun only to have it splatter the paint all over the wing. In desperation a grabbed my painters gravity gun, and wow ,so easy, and much more controlable than the old one, this was a mid range gun so I'm expecting great things from the new one, just need a mortgage to pay for it. Mind you I haggled and got the price down by a whopping £200, me thinks the paint suppliers are making just a little too much profit here!!!

jonathon wrote: I haggled and got the price down by a whopping £200,

Think I'll take you next time I buy a car

However much was the original price?

I tend to use relatively cheap guns - to be honest having tried better guns I've never really noticed a difference in performance. I could just be using it as an excuse for my aformentioned thriftyness of course

The 'Trade ' price is £370 plus vat, so I'm pretty pleased with the purchase cost.
I've basically followed the mid range guns, but decided to push the boat out and spoil myself, and as it only meant a further £100 I thought it was worth the try, especially as we are flooded with paint jobs at the moment.

jonathon wrote:I'm unsure (no distrespect to Alex ) as to his painting experience.

Very inexperienced, so the more foolproof the method the better...

alex_holden wrote: Very inexperienced, so the more foolproof the method the better...

Remember Alex, even a relatively bad paint finish can be salvaged.

If Jonathon will permit me - the only possible snag with spraying the paint thicker is that it may not atomise quite so well especially if you cannot maintain a good consistent air supply to the gun. The result will be a dry dusty finish which is potentially the hardest to salvage.

Aim for as smooth a finish as you can get even if it isn't shiny.

The secret with cellulose is to get a good wet coat on to enable the paint to flow out smoothly. Hence my mention of a "wet on wet" or double header coat.

Unfortunately to get a really good gun finish needs luck or experience (or possibly both )

So, aim to get the paint on as smooth as possible. if you get a good gun finish, great, if not .....

Flat with p1200 (or better p1500) wet and soapy until the finish is smooth and texture free, then polish the shine back on.

This can be done by hand but is better (quicker and easier) done with an electric polisher (mop) with a foam head and something like Farecla G3 compound. Keep it wet (I use a spray bottle) and keep moving.

Avoid edges and body highlines or you will go through in a flash - these can be done by hand.

So if the spraying doesn't go as planned you can still end up with a show winning finish.

Two other things

Try to get slow finishing or top coat thinner (evaporates slowly and allows the celly to flow) Fast flash thinner will dry long before the paint has had time to flow out.

If the paint is going on dry and orange peely, don't be afraid to thin the paint quite a bit more it will soften the peel and make it flow out. The good thing about celly is that if you do get a run it can be flatted out quickly and easily.

Thanks a lot for the advice There shouldn't be any problem with consistent air supply, as the compressor in this garage is a big industrial 3-phase beast.

Thats great stuff from Jonothan and John- and from another John, I'm a much less experienced sprayer than these guys but managed to get reasonable results from a cheap gun and hope to do better with the more expensive (£46) JGA copy I just treated myself too.

Alex, you will be OK if you follow these guys good advice. From my persepctive as a spraying near beginner (to agree with John's advice above), I'd say if you do get a few runs or some orange peel in the top coat- don't worry- if you have enough coats of paint on the car you can flat it smooth with the fine wet and dry (used wet in this case), then polish with G3, then t-cut. I also found laying a wing flat can help avoid runs.

Several top coats to be safe- so buy lots of paint. I've got 5 litres each to do the two project cars I've got.

I's also say spend lots of time cleaning the work space, sweep it out thoroughly, as you say its dirty, then use a vacuum. Dusty garage does not seem to matter when using spray cans but your compressor fan will kick up a lot of dust, which will be noticable in the top coat and require flatting out.

Careful prep is also vital, I found I needed to smooth the edges of filler totally smooth with up to 400grit paper (used dry) otherwise the celly paint will show it up. Sand the primer coats with up to 800 grit, any scratches will be visible under a dark top coat.

Good luck, and have fun!

Can a moderator copy/move this thread into "Useful Tips"?

There's is some seriously useful information here.

Do you think it's easier to remove items like the bonnet, doors, wings, front panel, bumper, etc. and spray them separately, or should I leave as much on the car as possible to avoid damaging the new paint when I reassemble them? I know that when we did the Landy we (well, my dad) sprayed all the panels individually while the vehicle was still a pile of bits, and some of them did inevitably get scratched/chipped during the reassembly and needed touching up afterwards.

I'd say remove the panels and spray seperately. Wait until they are fully dry and mask up all edges, double layer of masking tape will do, then remove carefully when panels are in situe.

Yes if you want to do a really nice job it's much better to take all the removable panels off

- It enables you to mask up and spray the door bonnet and boot shuts properly. They can then be painted at the same time as the main shell.

- If you either hang the panels such as doors or fabricate stands it enables you to paint the edges which are often missed or at best get a very thin coat of paint.

If you hang the panels it works OK although they do tend to swing a bit

It's a fairly simple matter to fabricate some panel stands out of scrap wood or metal (very good for doing doors)

As Jonathon says protect your edges while fitting the panels and don't be tempted to struggle on your own or you will knock your new paint off.

Hey John, we should get together and write a short paper, on painting and proceedures.

jonathon wrote:Hey John, we should get together and write a short paper, on painting and proceedures.

I think we're doing it already