Morris Minor Owners Club

ok so something in the rear diff / halfshaft area has decided enough is enough and broken.

Rather than spend the time stripping and cleaning and replacing the offending bit i'm opting to replace the entire rear axle assembly.

so is it possible to upgrade to something that is a little more sturdy? it's a 61 1000, but with a 1098 engine, and i dont want it to break again. did the later 1100's have something more beefy? or can something like and mg / morris ital etc fit with relatively little fuss?

one complication is that i'll need to keep the existing rear drums (as they have been redrilled to a different PCD).

i'm assuming that a stock 1000 replacement won't last too long due to the extra weight of the car, the 1100 engine and the 17" wheels, but am i wrong? should it be able to cope and i was just unlucky as the 40 odd year old parts just gave up?

cheers
john

You can certainly get uprated half shafts.

My feeling is that it would be easier to replace the half shaft than change the whole axle. As far as I know its only the half shafts that break.
I'm sure someone will be along soon with more experience, but I think you just drain the oil take the diff out of the axle and fish out the broken half shaft bits and put it back. Then put the new half shafts in rebuild the hubs refill the oil and off you go.

i see what your saying but from my quick look under the back end, i'm thinking - undo a bunch of bolts, whip the whole lot out and bolt the new one in and away you go, as opposed to stripping down, removing the broken part, cleaning everything else to make sure that no bits of metal are floating about etc then rubuilding with all new gaskets etc.

Bear in mind i'll only have a day to do this and when i do i won't be in a position to go running off for parts!

cheers
john

sorry should have explained - tis the pimp my ride moggy - 17" alloys and about half a ton of in car entertainment neither of which help my issue!

I suppose i was thinking i could replace with a later model moggy axle (if that was any stronger) and if possible fit my current brakes (complete drums back plates etc) to that axle or if things were really easy (which undoubtably they never are) replace with something like a marina axle and use the moggy brake on that.

one other though that crossed my mind was using a for rear axle (escort or similar) as the pcd i have is ford 4x108 (sierra disc conversion on the front) is this a possibility?

cheers for all your help.

one complication is that i'll need to keep the existing rear drums (as they have been redrilled to a different PCD).

I think you have answered your own question if you have altered the pcd with standard drums & backplates because if you use different axle which will then need mods to fit as there are none that are a direct replacement, you could upgrade to the later 4.22 diff and upgrade to stronger halfshafts if you wish.
Acouple of things puzzle me 17" rims seem a bit large as this must be putting extra strain on components with no other upgrades, and also what do you mean by

i'm assuming that a stock 1000 replacement won't last too long due to the extra weight of the car,

What extra weight ?

i see what your saying but from my quick look under the back end, i'm thinking - undo a bunch of bolts, whip the whole lot out and bolt the new one in and away you go, as opposed to stripping down, removing the broken part, cleaning everything else to make sure that no bits of metal are floating about etc then rubuilding with all new gaskets etc.

Well that could be the quickest way but only with a standard axle casing and providing everything comes apart nicely which I would doubt.

[quote="Kevin]Well that could be the quickest way but only with a standard axle casing and providing everything comes apart nicely which I would doubt.[/quote]

not quite sure how i managed to reply to your message before you posted it but nevermind!

i'm hoping that things should be relatively simple in the rusty bolt department as everything bar the proshaft / diff coupling has been off and replaced recently.

looking likely tha for the time being a secondhand rear assembly maybe the way to go and strip down and rebuild the original with heavy duty half shafts when i have a little more time.

Well, with a standard 1098 running on 17" rims it will have poor acceleration, especially with all that extra weight!

If I were you I'd be thinking (longer term) about an engine upgrade (1275 or Fiat 2L or something along those lines), so I'd try and source a MK2 Escort rear axle (like I have on my 4 door). These axles are strong and you can fit RS200 half-shafts to beef them up more if need be. Of course if you go down this route then you'll need a new prop (or the old one modifying) as the diff flanges are different (Ford to Minor). The flange is also a different distance away from the gearbox when comparing Ford to Minor so a custom prop will be in order.

For the time being I would be thinking about replacing the existing broken half-shaft as it's cheaper. The original should not have broken with the torque of a standard 1098. I think you were just unlucky.

Don't forget that changing the entire axle for another axle leaves the questions of: what condition are the brakes in? bearings? diff unit? At least with yours, you know those items are in good condition.

Also, I bet if you have to replace & bleed the brakes then labour wise it's probably a close call as to which is a quicker job. I'd go for half shaft replacement personally.

Oh and actually (thinking about it) the new half-shaft (or replacement rear axle half-shafts) will have standard Minor PCD (4") on the flange, so unless you have them modified too, your alloys won't fit! It's not just the drums that will have been modified, but the rear hubs/half-shaft flange too!

I would be interested to see how they have done this as I would not have thought there was enough metal on the flange to go to Ford PCD.

Hmmm... this leaves you in a tricky situation. I'd either go for the Ford axle or get in touch with the 'pimp my axle' people and ask them who modified the halfshafts and see if you can get a replacement made up/modified.

Yes - as Cam says - the half shaft must have been re-drilled too - so any new one needs the same work doing. But what PCD is it now - you may find for example that it is Ford PCD - and so a Ford axle would allow the big wheels to go straight on.

lol at 'pimp my axle'

i'd not thought about the drums / flange situation (i'm more akin to vw's don't forget so i'm thinking 1 piece rear drums / hubs but i'm learning!)
that does make it all a bit more hassle i suppose.

funny you should mention the engine upgrade bit, its something that may be in the pipeline so this could be a temporary fit anyway!

I might have a look at a moggy i know of in the scrappers (sat next to a marina) thats had a ford engine transplant to see whats on the back of that, but i'm assuming that its all ford running gear (box prop and rear axle).

i'll see what the situation is with the flanges, it brings up a whole new problem that i hadn't even thought about

Measure the PCD for the big wheels - then sort out an axle that will take them. We are all assuming the car retained the original Minor axle - did it ?

To replace a halfshaft shouldn't take more than a few hours - done it loads of times (unfortunately).
If I were in your position, I would get a couple of halfshafts re drilled to the stud pattern required, then just change the broken one for the time being (spare in case you need it). Then source a Ford Escort Mk 2/capri mk 1 axle with a suitable ratio (get prop too) - depending on your chosen power plant. You will also need the handbrake from the Ford as well (minor one does not allow enough movement) and get new U bolts made up along with mating the ford prop end to whatever the gearbox used requires. It is then just a quick swap over.
I used to take a spare halfshaft with me when I went on holiday - just in case - until I went to Ford.


Pete

bmcecosse wrote:Measure the PCD for the big wheels - then sort out an axle that will take them. We are all assuming the car retained the original Minor axle - did it ?

i appears to have the original rear axle casing, just spoken to the guys that did the work and they say that the rear end was changed to fiesta.

going to give morris services a ring to see exactly what they did!

the plot thickens....

They will just have redrilled the axle (hubs/shafts/drums) to suit the wheels - any engineering shop can do this.

Pete

well there we go, standard halfshafts with the flanges custom drilled to fit studs in the ford 4 x 108 pcd.

looks like its custom drilled heavy duty half shaft time which of course means £££

Bear in mind that the shafts won't have been new in the first place - and you certainly don't know their history. Unless you are going for more power now, just replace as I suggested. You'd be cheaper in the long run to upgrade to Ford as if you upgrade the shafts, the diff is next to go. My wife's minor exploded a Riley 1.5 diff (normal wifely driving) which threw metal through the axle casing resulting in a complete replacement - you have been warned


Pete

plastic_orange wrote:Bear in mind that the shafts won't have been new in the first place - and you certainly don't know their history. Unless you are going for more power now, just replace as I suggested. You'd be cheaper in the long run to upgrade to Ford as if you upgrade the shafts, the diff is next to go. My wife's minor exploded a Riley 1.5 diff (normal wifely driving) which threw metal through the axle casing resulting in a complete replacement - you have been warned


Pete

its all good fun and games isn't it!

i was thinking that if i was going to go to the hassle and expense of getting the halfshafts machined and changing them over i may aswell use heavy duty ones ie do it properly do it once sort of thing, but as you say it may be a better option to do the quick fix and think about upgrading completely.

I'll see how the costs work out and take it from there i think!

It should not be mega expensive to get the PCD altered (redrilled) and fit new Ford studs. I would not use Minor studs with those monster wheels as they will strain the tiny thin Minor ones, especially if there is no wheel centre support (which I doubt there will be but there should be). Fit the thicker Ford ones.

While I would expect wider tyres to put a greater strain on the halfshafts it may well have been that yours were tired and on their last legs (splines). A 1098 is not exactly a powerhouse but even a mildly tuned 948 can break tired halfshafts. You might find you get good service out of another set of standard items but how you go about finding some in 'as new' order I have no idea
I am running standard shafts with a 1275 at the mo with no problem. I have a pair of hardend items to go in soon - just to be on the safe side. You are welcome to the standard items when they come out but at the mo I can't say when that will be.

thanks guys, cam good advice, i'll see what they have put in at the moment, are the moggy studs usually pressed in or are the halfshaft flanges threaded? - steep learning curve here

Peetee - thanks for the offer its very kind, but i'm going to need something really soon, the moggy has to be up and running for its next appearance in july

I fail to understand how the back end can be fiesta - fiestas are FWD!