Morris Minor Owners Club

I am sure that there are several people on this forum who might be interested in entering their cars into the "working minor" class at the National.
I understand from the form that the car must have covered 8000 miles in the year, proven by MOT's, but are there any other guidelines that can be given as to what the judges will be looking for in this category.
For instance is there a standard marking sheet with say
x points for bodywork
y points for interior trim
z points for cleanliness of engine bay
a points for wheels
b points for underside
c points for brightwork
etc. etc??
It would be a guide as to where to start cleaning!!
Dave

I believe that after some concern was voiced over the increase to 8000 miles, it has now been put back to 5000.

As I understand it, unlike Concours, there are no standard marking sheets for any other classes judged at MMOC events. However for clarification of this I would suggest that you contact Sandy Hamilton at AFJHamilton@aol.com

All the best,

Bill

5000 is still to high, as many folk, like myself use a Moggie on a daily basis (a working car) and cover less than 5000 miles due to classic insurance limits.

Could we not go 4500 miles and over??? Some clubs in the "street cars" categories simply give points for the higher milage covered. This seems a fairer system to me.

chickenjohn wrote:5000 is still to high, as many folk, like myself use a Moggie on a daily basis (a working car) and cover less than 5000 miles due to classic insurance limits.

Could we not go 4500 miles and over??? Some clubs in the "street cars" categories simply give points for the higher milage covered. This seems a fairer system to me.

I fully understand and sympathise with your point of view. However as I have no say in the judging criteria of non concours cars, I must again suggest that you discuss this with Sandy Hamilton, sorry

As a matter of interest, I have my everyday convertible insured on a non limited mileage basis

If you had looked 4 posts earlier you can read what info was given when I brought the subject up in March
http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... pic&t=9817

If you had looked 4 posts earlier you can read what info was given when I brought the subject up in March
http://www.morrisminoroc.co.uk/index.ph ... pic&t=9817


Thanks for your helpful comments on mileage limit much of which as you say has been discussed before.
However no one has yet been able to answer my question regarding the allocation of marks for various aspects of the car other than to say it is not the same as the "condition" class.

Not the same as 'Concours'. Have you tried e-mailing Sandy Hamilton as I suggested?

Hello "Judge"
yes I sent an email to Sandy Hamilton a few days ago but as yet I haven't had a reply. If he agrees I will post his reply on here to assist others.
Dave

Thanks Dave. Please let me know how you get on.

Bill

As suggested I recently e mailed Sandy Hamilton to get some guidance as to the "rules of engagement" for judging working minors. His reply is as follows:-

Thanks for your enquiry and I hope the following clarifies the criteria for Condition Class judging (all classes not just Working) that have been in place since 2002.

The mileage stipulation for Working had been 5,000 pa prior to 2002 although it was initially 7,500 when the section was introduced some years before. [The reduction to 5,000 occurred prior to my involvement and the reasons for this are lost in time]. It had been intended to revert to the higher limit in future (this would be clearly above the most common higher mileage collectors insurance restriction) but at a late date in planning this years event an increase was deferred for further discussion. This may explain the reference to 8,000 that had been mentioned in early publicity.

The simplest way of proving mileage is by reference to previous and current MOT certificates. We trust members to declare if their speedo heads have been changed and to produce additional confirmation if requested. For those who have recently acquired a Minor and cannot demonstrate a minimum two year period of above-5k miles use/ownership we ask for their patience and understanding. The category is intended for those vehicles (and owners) that achieve regular (i.e. daily) use whether as a sole or second family vehicle, commuting or indeed as a working tool for the owners business. It is relatively easy to reach a significant annual mileage by attending weekend shows throughout the country and by going on one of the overseas trips. The original, and ongoing, intention has always been to recognise Minors that truly work for their living rather than simply 'hobby' cars that cover a significant distance.

To return to your main enquiry, where do you need to start cleaning first?
Your table is very comprehensive and would perhaps be more relevant to Concours where there is a comprehensive and standardised points system. Most owners do not wish to be involved with the commitment in time and effort that the more advanced Concours judging requires. Accordingly, in Condition Class we do not use such a system as this would be impossibly complex to manage in the context of several hundred vehicles on the National Rally Field. Over-complexity would defeat the objective of recognising clean and tidy vehicles in regular use that best reflect the specification and character of their specific period.

Marking is at each Judge's sole discretion and exact points scores are not disclosed however, Judges are looking at four areas: Exterior, Interior, Underside and Engine Bay. There is bound to be an element of subjectivity and each Condition Class Judge will aproach the task in his/her own style within the general criteria. For Working Minors the Judge(s) will consider the Minor displaying the highest annual mileage and length of service in the same ownership AND in the best overall condition. Given that the youngest Minor is at least 35 years old true originality is likely to be rare and most Minors will have been updated and/or restored. In the event of a tie priority will be given to the vehicle retaining the most original fetures and/or closest to the original specification bearing in mind the overall and annual mileage.

Those owners who require a more structured, points-based system should consider entering Concours where I know that Bill Hewlett would welcome them.

I hope this answers your enquiry, if not please let me know.

Regards, Sandy Hamilton (23912)
National Rally Committee/Condition Class Judging Co-ordinator

But its possible for a Minor to work for its living as a daily and only do 4500 miles a year! Mine does

chickenjohn wrote:But its possible for a Minor to work for its living as a daily and only do 4500 miles a year! Mine does

I suppose that is always the case whatever the cut off point chosen.
Personally I could claim to be aggrieved that the 8000 miles minimum was not stuck to as my daughter's Minor exceeds that amount.
However there must be some criteria to define the Class and I suppose that when that has been chosen by a consensus of members than we should abide by those rules.
Dave

Thanks for the update Dave