Morris Minor Owners Club

A £300 wing if as good as the original would be a godsend but if this quality for a price were projected across the full range of 'poor' parts we currently tollerate then this surely would push the Minor into the 'elitist' sector that you seem to decry.

I'd be surprised if it would push the status in to elitism - for example, the cost of painting a wing can be many times higher than the wing itself. Even the cost of the paint (without any labour) now makes a £60+VAT (paper thin) wing seem too cheap.
If someone wants to DIY restore a car, surely a £120 wing with visible flaws isn't what they want? I could be wrong but if paying a specialist to restore a car to a good standard, having decent panels makes the restoration cheaper!
If I had to pay twice the price for parts, but got parts of original quality it would save me money too. I get fed up of replacing dodgy 'new' parts with more rubbish new ones. When the supplier tells you that it's your own fault for buying them, there's not much else left to say.
If sill panels had slightly better grade of steel, and included drain holes (as per originals) then many many hundreds of Minor owners wouldn't be faced with an expensive shock a few years down the road when they have rotted through. (waxoil is of course not to be overlooked ;-) )

I remember asking what difference there was between pattern and AP master cylinder to be told that they get loads of pattern ones back under warranty, so I was happy to take the advice. Sadly that AP/Lockheed master cylinder was problematic from day one and was eventually re-replaced 14 months later

Obviously I'm biassed but think that good quality parts would save the owners money overall. I don't think it's ok that the customer has to do the quality checks that the manufactureer and supplier never bothered to do. I always open up wheel cylinders to look for swarf and regularly find some. I have not bought a new trunnion for >5 years without having to clean it and remove swarf etc.. etc..

The sad thing is that there is no way of telling which parts are worth buying, so how do you know if you are paying more money for quality or just over-paying for the same parts that other traders sell?

Minor engine parts are very much in common with other classics. Brake parts are not that specialised to be expensive. When it comes to tooling for specialised parts, I can never understand why such a strong club with a finite network of specialist traders can't all work together for the common good.

'cheque book restoration' is not a dirty word

I agree - it's just a different state of mind. I used the word to differentiate the 2 camps as they are very different markets, but both suffering increased hassle and higher costs due to poor parts.

Hi all interesting disscusion going on here? I suppose there is a perfectly good reason why self cutting trunnions wont work! but i spotted some for Marinas/Itals on e-bay and they set me wondering.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Morris-Marina-Ita ... 0257854946

I have no idear what a Marina king pin looks like! do they even have
them? but as they come from the same era? and same manufacturer! would it not be possible to adapt/copy this idear for minor king pins? On the price of spare parts, I have commented before that Minor parts seem very cheap compaired to other older manufacturers i.e my old Ford Pop parts are a lot more expensive and parts for my old M.G where getting horrendous. Croft

Marina king pin has screw thread at base (but larger diameter thread than Minor) and a proper ball joint at the top.

Does it cost more to have a panel bent at the correct 90 degrees angle, than the incorrect 85 degrees, for example? Or come to that, a wing the right size compared to wrong.

Sorry Les, that has gone straight over my head. What do you mean by bending a panel to 90 degrees? Any panel or a piece of sheet metal.. as you can see I'm confused.

Yes - of course - you would need to take some time and care to get it right !

What do you mean by bending a panel to 90 degrees?

At right angles!
Another way of making my point----- If someone asked me to cut a length of timber 12 inches long, it wouldn't be any more difficult for me, than cutting it 13 inches long, so I would make it right!

If you've got a worn-out tool that originally stamped out 90 degree panels but is now producing 85 instead, it could cost thousands of pounds to have it repaired.

Many years ago I asked about re tooling for the production of a new boot lid, the cost then was a conservative £30,000. Dread to think of what it would be now.

Thanks les... brain in gear now! If it requires a new tool... yes lots of dosh.

It would be far less for that boot-lid tooling now J - Chinese or Indians would do it for much less than that. Provided you order a quanitity of parts at the same time.
As for the length of wood - if I just guessed the size and cut it that would take much less time than carefully measuring it, marking off, cutting a little on the long side and then trimming it back to EXACTLY 12" if that's what you really want!

Ahh but I wouldn't go there on principle. I'd want British produced or nothing, so,...... we have nothing !.

My point is bm that items are usually made following some measurement, rather than guessed, so why not the right one!
I can accept to a point some tooling wear, although I would have thought jigs etc have been remade by some in recent years, I doubt if all manufactures or both (if there are only two) use the same equipment.

Depends on what the jigs have been based upon. Very few cars remain totally original, so its easy to tool to the incorrect sizes. I doubt that the manufacturers have the original factory blueprints to go by.
Bear in mind too that many of the better panels as made by Henrics were hand finished whereas now the large manufacturers are being held to a production cost that may well not allow this level of care and attention.

J - I agree completely on the 'Buy British' theme - but I'm afraid it's the way of the World now to go where the cost is lowest.

It's not just the tooling of course - the final product from a press tool depends on the quality of the steel used and the amount of 'spring back' in the stamped article when the tool opens. If the steel thickness and hardness is not well controlled - then with batch A the effect may well be 90 degrees, but with batch B - it may spring back to 85 degrees. If QC don't catch this (or even care) then that's what goes out to the customer!

Trouble with even a simple bend in a metal sheet (I know this as I spent 2 hours this afternoon on our Press brake) is you can set up a tool to do one bend but the tool setting changes on just about every press.

It also changes when you use a different sheet of material and can even change from one end of a sheet to the other.

To give you an idea of the variations on a simple press brake, a tool height difference of 0.25mm gives an angle difference of 5° ie 85° to 90° and thats on a simple single bend, if you then imagine the complexity of some Minor panels its an artform more than just a science.

To give you an idea of the variations on a simple press brake, a tool height difference of 0.25mm gives an angle difference of 5° ie 85° to 90° and thats on a simple single bend, if you then imagine the complexity of some Minor panels its an artform more than just a science

The people that produced the originals must have been good engineers then!

you can set up a tool to do one bend but the tool setting changes on just about every press

Why ?

It also changes when you use a different sheet of material

That I can understand.

BM, Its an unfortunate product of always buying on cheapness, that determines that manufacturing goes abroad.
I'm constantly amazed at people who buy on price rather than quality, then grumble when their half price item breaks or fails or is simply not fit for purpose.
For this reason ,when we started producing our mods, we disregarded the competitors pricing, and focused on providing the best product for a particular application, then trying to build in a reasonable profit margin,to cover development costs, future investment and a bit of profit to pay the bills. We may not sell as much as our competitors but I'm always guaranteed in the knowledge that the customer recieves the best possible product.