Morris Minor Owners Club

Matt its just that I thought it would be fairer to let members have a say as its paying members that keep the club going without them you haven't got a club .Who on here help choose the site ?? and why do they not mention anything just wondering.I find you cant ask any questions without fear getting threatened with club rules T@C and it doesn't let members get involved or help when they might want to

irmscher wrote:Matt its just that I thought it would be fairer to let members have a say as its paying members that keep the club going without them you haven't got a club .Who on here help choose the site ?? and why do they not mention anything just wondering.I find you cant ask any questions without fear getting threatened with club rules T@C and it doesn't let members get involved or help when they might want to

Yes

Matt wrote:Calm down guys (friendly warning...) - remember the T&C about critisism

I did wonder about moving it to the members section, but decided that the rally is open to all so the thread should be open.

I would also imagine that the venue for next year has already been decided and this thread won't make any difference to next years venue. There are, however, some interesting ideas for venues further in the future and im sure the appropriate people here will pass them on to the orgainsers. (There are a couple of active people on here who help organise the national rally)

Personally I don't really care where it is. If I have the weekend free and a suitable vehicle I will go there (even if its in Scotland )

Yup I agree
The council committee will over rule
Just like it always is here in the North they put it out for public debate and its just an exercise in public relations
Now am not saying that it has happened here asour club committee work hard for us behind the scenes

The sheer scale of a National means that many locations that we might think of simply don't turn out to be suitable, as it really is amazing how much room we need once everything is accounted for (putting this year's rally aside of course, since that was on a scale far above 'normal' years). Someone has already posted a rule-of-thumb estimate in this thread, and personally I'd say that was pretty optimistic, but it does give an indication about how much serviced land we need. When I say serviced, I'm talking about land with sufficient water points, with grass that isn't too deep, or covered in sheep doodoo, and is fairly flat, etc. That really counts out most places that aren't 'dedicated' show grounds, so for example your mate Fred's got a big field nice and central etc. isn't really up to it.

So, once you acknowledge that a show ground is what you're after, then you're starting to talk really serious money. And I mean proper serious - I did think that Newark showground might be a suitable place once, with it being right alongside the A1, easy to get to, middle of the country, etc etc. And then I found out they wanted something like seven thousand pounds for a weekend rally! Which brings me neatly on to costs. This is obviously a sensitive issue, and many negotiations take place to try and get the best value, and if you think about it for a moment you'll quickly realise that this isn't the sort of thing that you can have in the public domain.

I know that this can come across on the board that the organiser simply isn't interested in hearing from the membership but that genuinely isn't the case - its just that once you answer one point raised, another will come along and you think that if you've answered the first then you really should answer the second etc., and before you know it you've got a question up here on the club board that you might well know the answer to but that you really can't post publicly for whatever reason. Cue all the posts about 'meetings behind closed doors' and 'they won't answer us'! To be honest I did think before I posted this that I could be just opening the floodgates, but I was hoping that I could sort of stem the tide a bit.

When you put your own personal thoughts aside for a moment and think about it dispassionately, you can see why the club don't tend to reply too much in this sort of thread - they are hoping that that 'least said, soonest mended' will apply, and that if they did get involved with the thread then there would inevitably come a point when they couldn't answer anyway! Put it like this: the threads ARE read, the points ARE considered, but it isn't necessarily in the whole of the clubs best interests to get involved in a public and possibly 'lively' debate on the boards.

The posts about it being undemocratic are not really hitting the point. We LIVE in a democratic society, but you as an individual member of it don't get to run your own personal fiefdom. Well, I didn't anyway, when I wanted the local council to move a streetlamp outside my house! In our democratic society, and similarly in our club, we instead get to elect a person to represent our views and hopefully follow the path that we'd have followed had we been that person. Well, that's the theory anyway, and it has the same flaws at the level of the MMOC as it does when electing your MP.

Still, back to the real topic. Kelmarsh is somewhere we've visited several times, but there's a reason for that - it isn't (too) dear, it has everything we need, we've had good feedback from having rallies there, its in a good location, etc. Personally, it isn't a place that I'm overly enamoured with, but I concede that its in the greater good for all of us, and as above in a democracy I've got to go with the majority view. In regard to general location, again you've got to think outside your own personal view and realise that the club's job is to pick a location that gets the best attendance, and history dictates that the Midlands fits that bill. I take my hat off to the Scottish contingent who do huge mileages to National's, but expect them to understand that if you put the rally above Scotch Corner then you'd have only a small fraction of attenders compared to the other way round.

Finally, the club's own location is only one small part of the question, among all the other issues to resolve. The venue is most certainly not chosen to match the rally teams locations, which I'm pretty sure don't figure at all. The team come from literally all over the country, and some of them live up above Newcastle, so its certainly not the case that we minimise our own mileages!

Really, I'm not looking to add to the debate, just to say to those who are suggesting that the club isn't listening that that isn't the right answer, and that members are being heard but that this medium isn't necessarily the best one for answering the members feedback.

All that said, look forward to seeing you all next year!
Mike

Some of the above makes very good sense ,in terms of viability ,location etc,and the need for a non public debate etc. and I'm sure people take note .People need to know that they are taking views in to consideration and doing their best for the club

But parts of it are a little like" we know best",

I thank Mike for putting his head above the parapet .

I would like to see just a little more openness and dialog,sometimes it is the lack of communication,and reasonable information (real or perceived )that causes friction.

It's a little like being told your flight is late for no reason or explainations given ,over and over again

Thanks again Mike for the info,I'm looking forward to next year and have already volunteered my services

Kelmarsh Thanks for your reply to this topic Mike but I think the club should keep its members better informed and not in the dark about matters that concern them .When the "said" committee have there meetings why can't minutes be put up in the members section for all paid members to see and comment on and feel part of things ? What is the criteria for committee posts to be re elected- is this automatic or do members get a chance to get involved in who they want or is it automatic re,election unaposed ?.I noticed last year and the year previous cars were donated to the club and one was given to Liz who works in the club shop as a paid employee free of charge who thought her a deserving case the committee without consulting anyone as quite a lot in my club think it should of been raffled for club funds or maybe a competition prize at the National! .What happened to the other car can you enlighten us about that one as I haven't seen it mentioned only that it was kindly donated.It also occurs to me the further north members are ie Scotland they are neglected regarding a national and I am sure everyone would love to see how nice Scotland is and spend a few days there

^^ A perfect example of what I said earlier - I couldn't possibly have planned it better ^^

Irmscher - If you are a paid up member of the MMOC you are entitled to attend the AGM (held this year in Nottingham) Notice of the AGM is given in Minor Matters. It is at this meeting people's names are proposed to the membership who then vote as to whether they wish them to stand or not. If you are not happy with the way the Club is being run/who is on the Committee this is the way to change things. Attend the AGM and vote! Complaining on a messageboard will change nothing.

As for the car donated to the MMOC it was not given to Liz Saxon - she very kindly offered her drive as there was not enough room for it to be stored at the MMOC offices (I believe building work was being carried out) It remains the property of the MMOC. I think the other car you refer to would be the white car we used to collect money for Marie Curie (2008) This car was sold and the monies raised went towards the purchase of the MMOC green van used for MMOC business. It came to Gaydon yesterday, carrying all the Club Merchandise and is a very good advert for the club.

When I started this post I knew it would get some varied lively responses and there's nothing wrong with that, but back to the question in hand ' Where do You the members think the national should be' personally I would like to see an annual list of SUITABLE, cost effective locations throughout the UK and then some how let members vote on where it should be and advertise it on this website and in Minor matters then everyone's happy.
If it is too late for next year then hey ho, but if it is Kelmarsh then it's a good location but for future years the members need to be consulted. IT'S YOUR CLUB.

The centre of population for the uk is just west of leicester so somewhere close to here would seem the fairest, kelmarsh is not to far from here so would seem sensible.

simona1 wrote:When I started this post I knew it would get some varied lively responses and there's nothing wrong with that, but back to the question in hand ' Where do You the members think the national should be' personally I would like to see an annual list of SUITABLE, cost effective locations throughout the UK and then some how let members vote on where it should be and advertise it on this website and in Minor matters then everyone's happy.
If it is too late for next year then hey ho, but if it is Kelmarsh then it's a good location but for future years the members need to be consulted. IT'S YOUR CLUB.

I agree!

simona1 wrote:When I started this post I knew it would get some varied lively responses and there's nothing wrong with that, but back to the question in hand ' Where do You the members think the national should be' personally I would like to see an annual list of SUITABLE, cost effective locations throughout the UK and then some how let members vote on where it should be and advertise it on this website and in Minor matters then everyone's happy.
If it is too late for next year then hey ho, but if it is Kelmarsh then it's a good location but for future years the members need to be consulted. IT'S YOUR CLUB.

D'ya know, at face value that's not a bad idea. Unfortunately though, it doesn't survive any more critical examination. Lets imagine for a moment that loads of research has been undertaken, and we ended up with three alternatives, Ramford, Rumford, and Rimford. So, we put up a poll, in the members area so that we're theoretically catering for members desires rather than just someone who has a posting account on this board. Ramford gets 48% of the vote, Rumford gets 38%, Rimford gets the remaining 14%.

Okay, done deal, right? Ramford it is. But hold on, Ramford is up above the Scottish borders. Nobody had factored in that the majority of members with a board account are Scottish, whereas us wimpy southerners don't know how to use computers. So do we have the rally in Scotland, in the full knowledge that we'll get only around half the numbers we usually do? (A quick reinforcement of my previous statement here - I genuinely do have a massive amount of respect for members north of the border who have to travel the sort of distance to Nationals that I take on to get to MOT. But here's the rub - they DO come down to southern rallies, and more power to them for it, but the southerners DON'T go in the opposite direction! So, do we please the majority of voters, or the majority of members? It isn't necessarily the same thing.

Right then, lets discount Ramford, based solely on getting the maximum attendance. Gotta be Rumford now then, yes? Ah, but Rumford want half again what Rimford want to charge. If we go to Rumford, we'll all have to pay a higher rally fee than if we went to Rimford. Now what? Right, enough procrastination, we're gonna make a decision, and we'll go with the majority vote and to hell with the cost. Ooops, they don't have our preferred date available any more, and we hadn't been prepared to pay all three of them a 'retainer' fee to hold the dates open for us while we waited for a vote to come back.

Fair enough, I didn't like either of the other two anyway, I much prefer Rimford. So lets prove the conspiracy theorists right and pick that one regardless. Hang on a mo, isn't Rimford the place that won't allow you to bring your own choice of caterer, and instead insists that you only use their preferred (and much more expensive/much less reliable/much worse food) supplier?

By the way, now that we've published the result of this vote as you wanted us to do, Ramford got themselves an account and they've just discovered that we all want to go there. Remember that discount we negotiated? Sorry, its not available on that week, says the email just in from Ramford Events Ltd. You can pay the full rate, or not come. Meanwhile, the board mods have just sent an email off to the committee - they've discovered that some people have been using multiple IP addresses and rigging the poll with multiple votes.

Hey, we haven't got time for all this, we've got to get on with booking all the additional stuff for a national. Let's go with Remford, which hadn't quite made it into the original poll list. At least that's near where I live...

I am happy to travel, I still think Scotland, then it will be a great trip for me and the Mogs to come all the way up country from Portland sticking out at the bottom! Somewhere different is always good.

The food suppliers couldnt be much worse than last time .Southerners don't go in the opposite direction that's not a nice thing to say as they do travel and plenty were at Leeds or do you have a short memory and most enjoyed the travel and treated it as a reliability trial.I think members just want to feel its there club and get involved and have a say maybe consult 1 rep from each regional club and then he or she can voice the opinions of the members .I don't care where it is as 14 of us will be attending but feel Scotland and the North in general get a rough deal .

How accurate this image is I don't know...

(from http://www.coolgeography.co.uk/GCSE/AQA ... 0water.htm)

What that suggests to me is that the "average" location of the population (by roughly looking at the highest population areas) would be somewhere between Derby/Manchester sort of area?

According to wikipedia (yeah I know...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population

Population center of the UK is near Appleby Parva in Leics. So in order to minimise the average travelling distances we should have the rally there in the cricket club

Good idea - we could ask the ladies who do the cricket teas to do our catering!

So guys, as long as we get plenty of notice anywere is within travelling distance isnt it? Ive been over from Northern Ireland for the last 10 or so nationals and a few before that as well.

Take it for what it is a load of minor nutters, minors in a field with parts for sale and enjoy

Lou ,can you ask them to cut the crusts off the cucumber sarnies