Morris Minor Owners Club

those were dellerie's reference pics. on the first page mike-b's pics you can just about see the engine bay floor and engine mountings.

Hello Chris,

thanks for that, I'd forgotten by this time in the thread.

Alec

Alec - the thrusts falling out 'incident' has been known to happen on a Mini engine due to incorrect assembly - and the owner reported destroyed crank and block - and he switched off as soon as it made the 'nasty noise'. I've no idea what has happened here - but we are told there is minimal end float on both crank and cam - so hopefully the additional washer will keep the sprockets lined up nicely.

Hello BMCE,

there is something extraordinary with this engine, and as the history is unknown, if it were, mine I would not be happy unless I had identified the cause and remedied it.

Perhaps Triumph engines are made of sterner stuff than BMC ones?

Alec

Well mike seems happy, but as a point of interest, removing the triangular plate and then installing the gears might have been useful, it would allow the camgear to come forward, but ignoring that, maybe it would push back to line up, if not maybe the pump is involved or has no gasket!

The cam gear needs to go back, or the crank come forward.
I wonder if he pulled on the crank to find the end float or just pushed it.

The engine is unlikely to self destruct if the front thrust washer isn't there as it has nothing much to act against.

Les raises an interesting point .....has the oil pump been changed? Any chance a 1275 'long shaft' pump has been fitted in error - and is pushing the cam forward HARD against the triangular plate? I'm pretty sure the pump couldn't be tightened up flush if this is the case.........

bmcecosse wrote:Les raises an interesting point .....has the oil pump been changed? Any chance a 1275 'long shaft' pump has been fitted in error - and is pushing the cam forward HARD against the triangular plate? I'm pretty sure the pump couldn't be tightened up flush if this is the case.........

Surely if that was the case the oil pump would be pushing the cam forward AWAY from the triangular plate? Or is that plate used as a bearing surface on the inside of the engine as well? I am reasonably confident that the camshaft is in the right place though, due to the clearance between the cam sprocket and triangular plate being as it should.

As curious as I am, I don't have the inclination to strip the whole engine at this stage to try and find the ultimate cause. And yes, I did pull as well as push the crank to find the endfloat (I don't have facilities here to measure it, but it was definitely no more than 0.5mm). I can't see an endfloat in the workshop manual specs, does anyone know the acceptable range for an a series?

It's all back together now, I ran it up to temp and it purrs like a kitten - definitely a lot quiter than before (and it wasn't particularly noisy for a 1098 engine anyway). The tappets need a bit more adjustment, but their noise is now very much more precise sounding, where before it was 'chattery', or maybe that was just the chain noise? The new found quietness has also highlighted a slight blowing from the exhaust - guessing at the manifold to exhaust joint.

I changed the water pump at the same time and that gave more problems in itself - the impeller on the new pump is bigger (both diameter and width) than the old one, and when I'd got the pump bolted up it was wedged against a protruding part of the block. After a bit of work with a dremel I removed enough metal from the block to get it clear. I guess they maximised the size of the pump on the later/bigger engines, or the aftermarket pump is ambitiously sized!

So hopefully I can now put those jobs to bed, and get on with the other little issues.

Hello Mike,

I don't believe the oil pump would have any bearing in the matter, even if the camshaft is hard against the keeper plate, end float is only a few thou. Certainly it is not right to have it like that but that is not the reason for the discrepancy.
I don't have the data to hand but I would think crank end float wouldn't be much above 5 thou or so, so your admittedly guessed .5 mm is too much, but is not a great problem.

Alec

I wouldn't strip the engine down either, you've sorted the problem and have a much better, quieter engine for it.

What if it turned out the crankshaft was out of specification? It's probably been like this for 40 years.

Admittedly I'd be tempted to take the sump off and clean it out, there will probably be a pound of timing chain sludge on the bottom!

Yes - endfloat should only be 3 to 5 thou on the crank. If the oilpump hasn't been changed - it can't be the problem - it wouldn't have made any oilpressure.

Hello Mark,

"What if it turned out the crankshaft was out of specification? It's probably been like this for 40 years."

That much error is as probable as winning the lottery jackpot twice in a row.
The point I've been trying to make is that it is better to at least know why rather than trust to luck by compensating, particularly with an unknown engine? Removing the sump on a Minor is a quick and easy job, hardly a strip down?

Alec

I think the lottery has already been won, it's lasted this long, isn't that a result?

I'd take the sump off because it's been eating cam chains for a while and most of that metal is likely to be in it.
Of course I'd also have a good look around while it's off including taking the centre main cap off.

Hello Marky,

there is no history so you don't know how long it has been like that.

Alec

Fair point, it's an assumption, however it will at least have worn out the last chain with extreme prejudice, a lot more metal will be missing than in the normal course of events.

Hello Marky,

yes that's very likely as is that some of that debris will have found it's way around the engine?

Alec

It will, but the good news is that whatever damage it has done hasn't knackered the engine.
Some of it will have been filtered out, the rest will no longer be in circulation, and will have formed an almost immovable sludge, mostly in the sump.

To keep an eye on it one could magnetise the end of the dip stick and see if anything gets picked up, I doubt it will though unless engine flush is used.

Such pessimism - that's MY job !!

I'd call it realism, which part do you find pessimistic?