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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:01 pm
by RobThomas
Remember those chewey sweets? Blackjacks, Fruit Salads etc etc?

Bolts are a bit like them. If you held one at each end a pulled they would withstand a certain amount of force and shrink back when released. Too much force and they start to 'thin down' (or neck, in tech-speak) which then means that the force is applied over a thinner area, thus leading to it getting rapidly worse.
With bolts, if you tighten them to the right torque they will clamp the 2 bits together and absorb any shock quite well. Too loose and they will allow the 2 pieces to wobble, inducing nasty shearing loads (Like an MFI wardrobe door hinge when the screws loosen). Too tight and they'll be permanently deformed by what is called plastic deformation where they start to permanently stretch, instead of elastic deformation where they return to their former shape. Elastic=good, plastic=bad. Once a bolt has been tightened beyond the designed torque (eg 38ftlbs) and also gone beyond the plastic limit then it is a matter of WHEN, not IF it is going to snap.
http://www.zerofast.com/torque.htm
If you look at the chart for 3/8-24 (3/8th inch dia, 24 teeth per inch) in a grade 5 bolt, plain, it comes out at 38 ftlbs. Guess what?
If you go to 7/16-24 (Vauxhall Viva etc) then it is 60 ftlbs.
I bet if you found the metric conversion page then it would show massive metric bolts for a 150mph BMW would be 110Nm.

OK, so I've oversimplified it a bit but the basic theory holds true. Those 110Nm'd Morris wheel studs (and nuts) are going to die, eventually, even if you re-set them at the correct figure. After all, the side loads on wheel studs are horrific! Bolts are designed to clamp things together, not to stop them sliding sideways. We have locating dowels for that.

Cheap bolts are a nightmare. When proper bolts are made they put the threads on with roller machines that squash the threads onto a piece of smooth bolt. This keeps the stresses safe. If you cut a thread (Like Champion do with their sparkplugs) then the sharp teeth of the cutter will slice nasty great gouges out of the metal and make a prime piece of realestate for a crack to develop. It also makes the cut thread on the bolt into a nice way of cutting a notch into the nut thread!

Tip for the day? Quality bolts. Spin them once down the thread with a nut to ensure no binding, use decent rust prevention to avoid corrosion causing cracks, never add to a thread by using a tap-n-die set unless absolutely necessary, ummmmmm.....anything else, guys?

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:05 pm
by RobThomas

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:06 pm
by PSL184
The most worrying factor here for me is that if a wheel nut on any of our cars has ever been over tightened, you are suggesting it will fail (and I'm not arguing with that) so, taken to the N'th degree, we should all be out there changing our wheel studs and nuts unless we have owned our cars from new and have never over tightened a wheel nut !!!!
I think the reality is slightly less worrying but it is certainly worth checking nuts and studs for any signs of fatigue or stress.

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:08 pm
by ssnjimb
iam changing mine tomorrow. to remove the old ones it it simply a matter of removing the drum and tapping the old ones out of the hub

Jamie

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:10 pm
by PSL184
In theory, yes, but don't go stressing the hub flange by bashing too hard if you have any that are stuck fast. You would be better off removing the hub and using a press to push them out.

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:13 pm
by ssnjimb
ok thankyou for that psl.

Do you have any wings going spare

Jamie

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:18 pm
by PSL184
No, sorry. Sold off all my "spare" panels to make room for the Traveller project in the garage....

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:36 am
by bmcecosse
Good explanation there Rob!
Yes - studs will be stretched and nut threads will be worryingly loose too if they have been overtightened! If the nut 'wobbles' on the thread - at least try another nut - and if that too wobbles - worry about the stud being stretched. Generally - the studs are much better quality than the nuts! old studs should just tap out - pull the new ones in with a pile of washers - and a wheel nut on backwards!

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:58 am
by Dean
ssnjimb wrote: Do you have any wings going spare

Jamie
I still have mine.

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:04 am
by billlobban
Bought a full new set of nuts last week. Half of them are excellent quality and the rest look like the've been machined by a 2 year old. Bits of swarf still attached from the threading process - Impressed? - NO!

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:34 pm
by ASL642
If you've received goods from a supplier that you consider "faulty" complain. This is the only way to keep the standard of parts good.

Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:32 pm
by bmcecosse
Uh-oh - hope this doesn't revive the thread about making wheel nuts..............