Waiting to be turned on...

Post by **Orkney** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:19 am

Dont give up just yet ! sounds like points are the problem now - i went through this recently, my timing was terribly out even though it was pretty close.
I'll look through my PM's later because Ray i think sent me the definitive guide to doing this correctly.
I did find it neccessary to pop to the local garage at one point though and just get a timing light on it - it was actually about 5 degrees out in teh wrong direction. They didnt charge me and it ran like a beautiful new engine afterwards, LOTS more power and oh smooth

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:18 am

It sounds like you've got the timing all right enough for the engine to start, all other things being equal. Can I make sure I understand what you are seeing?

When you say you see a spark, is it at the contact beaker points, or at the spark plug end of the HT leads?

I wouldn't worry about sparks at the contact breaker, except to say that if you are seeing them there, then your condenser (capacitor) is probably not working, or wired up wrongly.

You should be looking for sparks at the plug end.

With the distibutor cap off, connect a single plug lead to the HT output on the coil (the one that normally goes to the centre of the distributor cap). Stick a plug in the other end, and rest it on the engine somewhere so it earths the plug body. Flick the points open with the ignition on, and you should see a spark across the plug gap. If not, you've got a problem with the LT wiring, the coil itself, the HT lead or the plug.

Assuming that works, reassemble the plug leads the right way, and with the distibutor cap on, and all the leads in place, rest the spark plugs, connected to the HT leads, so they touch metal on the engine somewhere, and turn the engine over. Do you get a spark at the plug gaps?

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:36 am

Why does the little clicky knob seem completely ineffective?

The clicky knob is for very fine adjustments to the timing. It is 11 clicks to 1 degree, so you can't really see it do much, but you should be able to turn your light on and off (the one you fix across the points to do the timing set up) using it, once you've found the correct place with turning the distributor body.

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:25 am

I'm off skiing for the day, be back around five/six my time at which point I'll do some work again- I'm glad people are being supportive, I'd never have thought of this stuff! Thank you, and don't let my lack of reply atop you from posting- the greater my knowledge base when I attack this again, the better!

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:29 am

Axolotl, the sparks are at the breaker- none at the plugs, I'm afraid!
I can provide information, still- I forgot to say I have Internet on my phone, so I can reply to posts, I'm just not close enough to my car to put them into effect!

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:56 am

O.K, sparks at the contact breaker mean you're getting power there, on the LT (low tension) side of the ignition circuit, so we need to find out why you're not getting it to the plugs.

I'd try the trick with a single plug lead connected directly to the coil HT (high tension) output. That isolates all the functions of the rotor arm and distributor cap, and shows if the coil is actually producing the necessary HT voltage to make a spark. It's an easy check, as you can do it with the distributor cap off, and you don't need to turn the engine over, just flick the points open with your finger. If the coil's o.k., you'll get a spark at the single plug each time you open the contact points.

If that's o.k., we'll move on to the next step later.

Post by **Orkney** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:01 pm

Jack did you remember to put the rotor arm back on ??? blindingly obvious perhaps but ive forgotten it before and wondered why there was no spark

Axy you should start an online diagnostics website

Post by **alex_holden** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:06 pm

Orkney wrote:Axy you should start an online diagnostics website

Is that not what this is?

Post by **Orkney** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:26 pm

I meant a paid one earning money

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:28 pm

That I did remember, it's on all right! It worked before, as well- I don't expect it to have any problems...
I always thought that was what it was, too. Still there's plenty of other stuff going on here... Diagnostics with a difference

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:36 pm

Axy you should start an online diagnostics website

Let's wait 'til it starts, eh? I'm just trying to eliminate possible problems to focus on what's not working. When we've done that, like Sherlock Holmes said, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the answer. (Or words to that effect.

)

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:37 pm

like Sherlock Holmes said

He probably dove a Minor

.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:29 pm

There must have been sparks before - because you said it made black smoke! #1 ia at TDC and wants to fire when the valves for #4 are both 'rocking' - ie both slightly open - that's valves 7 and 8! Ignore all other valves - concentrate on getting the dizzy lined up for #1 at TDC.

Post by **Axolotl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:20 pm

concentrate on getting the dizzy lined up for #1 at TDC

I think we've done that. There was just some confusion about when the engine was at TDC. The distributor seems to be lined up o.k. The problem now is no sparks at the plugs.

the sparks are at the breaker- none at the plugs, I'm afraid!

We await events...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:38 pm

But you can't see sparks at the breaker unless the dizzy cap is off - and then there won't be sparks at the plugs! There must have been sparks before - there was black smoke! The earlier lining up for #1 seemed a bit confused - with talk of valve 5 and 6.

Post by **Nadir** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:46 pm

I'm puzzled. The only mention of 'smoke' that I can find are in your posts and Kevin's signature. Doesn't mean they aren't there, of course

Post by **alex_holden** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:57 pm

Nadir wrote:The only mention of 'smoke' that I can find are in your posts and Kevin's signature.

jackkelleher wrote:I tried to start it, and it turned over all right but wouldn't start. On the sixth or seventh attempt it caught once, belched black smoke from somewhere and a smell of burnt oil, then went out...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:00 pm

" Anyway, I have a huge problem...
I tried to start it, and it turned over all right but wouldn't start. On the sixth or seventh attempt it caught once, belched black smoke from somewhere and a smell of burnt oil, "

Post by **Nadir** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:10 pm

Aha - computer not looking hard enough, as suspected. Sorry

Post by **jackkelleher** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:49 pm

I'm on the way back home now, so I'll be able to actually do something- sorry to have left this so long! However I think we'll find something with axolotl's diagnostic...
yes, there was smoke, but only once out of seven tries, and it cut out almost immediately- inkeeping with the possibility of erratic spark. I would be disappointed if the condenser's gone- it's about eight months old and probably hasn't even done 100 miles! Still they do keep going on me...